owner get screwed by trainer

mister a Wrote:

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> something like this must have happened overseas in
> the past,, HRA have to act to be seen as a
> controlling body or racing game becomes a free for
> all


lol...havent u noticed mister a..it is a free for all..

if you are right JustinV then SA horseracing will lose all international credibality

gee a couple of people have posted on this thread that have plenty skeletons in their closet and they know exactly who they are...all of a sudden you talk like flippin angels...you would swear this is the first time that a trainer has benefitted from an owner in this manner well be with me its been going on for years with breeders and trainers and bloodstock agents working in cahoots and some of these men carry on like they holier than holier ...

mr hawaii Wrote:

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> rubyclipper Wrote:
>

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>

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> > So not paying a debt is not fraud? Millions of
> bad
> > debt from "racehorse owners" have been written
> off
> > collectively by nearly every trainer in SA.
> >
> > Horses eat, feed merchants etc get paid by
> > trainers, and then some owners do not pay their
> > bills. I dunno, sounds pretty much like fraud
> to
> > me? Especially when this guy keeps "promising"
> > (his word not mine) to pay...
> >
> > And guess what? The NHRA refuse to do anything
> > about owners that do not pay (ask New Turf
> > Carriers), so can't see why they will do
> anything
> > about this. So don't hold your breath.
> >
> > Anyone know any good debt collectors?
>
> Ruby my take on Fraud - you open an account at a
> shop and provide the incorrect details so you
> cannot be billed or in this case you were offered
> X amount for the horse as agent but you tell your
> owner you were offered less and thereby defraud
> him . Not paying a bill is not fraudulent (unless
> you act fraudulently by hiding money to prevent
> payment) but is non-fulfillment of your contract.

Nicely put Mr H

Call it anything you want but not paying the trainer is wrong! All feed and grooms etc are paid now, not in 30/60/90 days.:X

we recently had a trainer that asked us for an advance,then ripped us off ,and were just poor punters..

I chatted to the NHA on the issue of clients not paying their trainers not so long ago.

Their stance was along the lines that if there is no contract between the parties, then things get a little sticky as you end up in a he-said, she-said sort of situation. Generally speaking they won't do anything unless the parties involved have pursued private legal avenues.

A lawyer friend advised that whether a written contract exists or not, there are obligations between parties and certainly if an owner chooses not to pay, a trainer automatically has a lien over a horse and is therefore legally entitled to dispose of it in order to recoup costs (I'm generalising quite a bit here for the sake of simplicity).

I have to say, as a general horse person, I have racehorses and competition horses. My competition horses are kept at liveries and ALL liveries demand payment in advance, most demand a deposit and all have contracts. It is considered normal. Each client pays their vet bills, physio bills, farrier bills, etc directly. If you don't, your horse simply doesn't get seen to. The end. But obviously it does have the added benefit that you as the owner obviously request the services, so you are in control and aware of what your horse is costing you at any given time.

I shopped around for a trainer a while ago and it was interesting to talk to different trainers, see their facilities and hear what they quote you in terms of costs and services. Not once did anyone mention a contract or a deposit and some of them are not even sure what their fees are !! I've had my training bills vary so much on a month to month basis that on occasion it has been double what I was originally quoted (due to noms, acceptances, additional services, vitamins, powders, etc). Lets not even talk vet bills.....

I have to say it is one of the more tiresome aspects of racehorse ownership. Unlike your car, house (or normal horse) expenses, you honestly have no idea what you're going to be faced with every month. And if you complain that you didn't authorise 20 physio treatments, or a private float, or a pink rhinestone rug or whatever, it usually turns out that everyone was too busy to tell you. Hmmm...

i'm not saying that makes non-payment OK (it doesn't), but it does seem that communication is somewhat overrated in our industry....

100% Suz have been via these channels but remember it also works other way where trainers cheating owners and they won't support.

I know all three owners that were screwed. All very decent people, the amount they were diddled out of was for two horses amounting to R270k theft. The owner was given the price by the trainer the owner then asked if a better price could be achieved. the answer was no when in fact the offers on the horses was 270k more than the trainer told the owners nod this is fact.

Trainers who try or do take their owners for a ride are worse than the slow/non payers and should be exposed so decent owners do not fall into that same trap!

Let me just say beware of trainers that charge you VAT that are not registered to do this, make sure they are in good standing with Gold Circle or you will find when nominating that you end up on the eliminated list after a good draw and also watch the vet bills are controlled as you might end up with a R6000 bill in 3 months for a horse that was fit and well ?

The NHRA stance is u should have a contract? How would anyone even if they had a contract consider having the above listed?

In this game you live and learn and next time ( sadly there probably won't be a next time) due to situations like this and is NOT good for the game.

I am sure the NHRA say something about protecting the integrity of the game in their mission statement?

The NHA is a non-entity in racing in my opinion.

They don't do nearly enough to protect the sport of racing in SA.