No Interview Flash...

rob faux Wrote:

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> Are we not overlooking a basic contractual
> principle here?
> In any industry,if I pay a service provider to
> perform a service,I am the only one entitled to
> feedback/information in respect of that
> service.................. (how would you react if
> your Doctor gave your medical results to the
> community..........lol)
>
> I question whether a trainer is,in reality,legally
> entitled to give a feedback report,of a provided
> service,to anyone other than the payor of the
> service/training fees without their permission???



> (The NHA rules refer to "improper " information to
> persons other than owners???(No definition of
> "improper" and I'm not sure the NHA know what to
> do with it)

Don't owners pay trainers for keep and conditioning of a racehorse? And pay the trainers for training horses accordingly? I don't think anywhere in the contract states that one should have 1st preference to prices,etc.

pirates Wrote:

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> Saksy Wrote:
>

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>

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> > Pirates, assuming the tote got their act
> together
> > and offered a good product, good facilities
> etc,
> > which is made more difficult because there is a
> > shortage of funding (which imvho bookies are
> > partly to blame for) please can you explain how
> > bookies add anything to the sport other than
> cause
> > corruption, debt and market distortions? I'm
> all
> > ears!!
>
>
> thats not the point as a punter i want fixed odds
> not the tote product..

Pirates, your response sums up why there are so many problems in the game. Why do you want fixed odds? I would guess so you have certainty about your potential profit, not unreasonable but it is a selfish reason nevertheless. Now you might be a very generous person so don't take it personally but it's looks like everyone in the game is only prepared to act in their own interests and not for the good of the game.

Trainers want to keep info for the owners and line up punts so the owners will view them favourably, owners want an advantage over the punters by taking their so called "entitled" price, punters want fixed odds even though they know that their money would be better off going to the operators and the operators are happy to screw everyone for the benefit of their shareholders. And we wonder why the game is sick!!! No one is prepared to sacrifice and give. Now I'm not trying to be negative here, but there's no point in burying our heads in the sand and claiming that the bookies are stuffing everything up by being too scared to take on liability. The issues run much much deeper and the price distortions are a symptom of a far greater sickness called greed!

Ok guys a bit late and not read all the detail but would appear to be some great contributions.
I notice remarks made about manipulation of odds via Interbet?
I am not sure this is a fair comment, Interbet is an exchange and matches people of different views on the outcome of an event.
In the SA scenario bookie to punter as opposed to punter to punter with Betfair.
So if the disseminated prices change the odds on the left hand side of the screen change however the offers and matches on the right hand side do not have to relate to the fixed market prices and you can request what u need and it possibly gets matched.
An exchange to me in its purest form cannot be faulted, it's a supply and demand tool and if your request (what u feel is a fair price) is not matched, then there is always another race or event.

Hell I need to get to bed!

Saksy Wrote:

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> pirates Wrote:
>

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>

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> > Saksy Wrote:
> >
>

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>
> >

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> > > Pirates, assuming the tote got their act
> > together
> > > and offered a good product, good facilities
> > etc,
> > > which is made more difficult because there is
> a
> > > shortage of funding (which imvho bookies are
> > > partly to blame for) please can you explain
> how
> > > bookies add anything to the sport other than
> > cause
> > > corruption, debt and market distortions? I'm
> > all
> > > ears!!
> >
> >
> > thats not the point as a punter i want fixed
> odds
> > not the tote product..
>
> Pirates, your response sums up why there are so
> many problems in the game. Why do you want fixed
> odds? I would guess so you have certainty about
> your potential profit, not unreasonable but it is
> a selfish reason nevertheless. Now you might be a
> very generous person so don't take it personally
> but it's looks like everyone in the game is only
> prepared to act in their own interests and not for
> the good of the game.
>
> Trainers want to keep info for the owners and line
> up punts so the owners will view them favourably,
> owners want an advantage over the punters by
> taking their so called "entitled" price, punters
> want fixed odds even though they know that their
> money would be better off going to the operators
> and the operators are happy to screw everyone for
> the benefit of their shareholders. And we wonder
> why the game is sick!!! No one is prepared to
> sacrifice and give. Now I'm not trying to be negative here, but there's no point in burying our
> heads in the sand and claiming that the bookies
> are stuffing everything up by being too scared to
> take on liability. The issues run much much deeper
> and the price distortions are a symptom of a far
> greater sickness called greed!

The owner is the only person in your racing scenario who puts his cash up front with no guarantee of return tends to all costs and yet has no right ahead of a punter who will get a return or not on the day of his punt :S That is why most trainers want to keep the owners happy .....

This of course as you pointed out is only an opinion......

Owners have a right to a punt(owning a horse is not cheap) I think but where Trainers could help is informing the Media if a horse has a situation that could affect the result that is not reflected in the racecard - eg recovered from an injury etc

Well said Len. As I always say anyone with R10 can be a punter, but not everyone can be an owner. Im not a big punter but some owners are and in my opinion should have the right to punt their horse first, after all it belongs to them. Info from the stable to the punters I do agree should be more transparent, but there is a time and place for that, after the owner has been given the info first. Remember he as a owner still has the decision/choice to make if he is going to have a punt or not. The betting/form is there for the punter to make their decisions. Having said that most trainer are more than forth-coming with info if asked. The only RIGHT here is between owner and trainer. The gesture of giving info to punters is'nt. This might sound rude, but think about it. If only a fair BALANCE can be achieved between owner/trainer/punter then we would all be happy!! Not easy though !! When it comes to money every man is his own island.

This same topic goes back and forth every couple of months. What I want to know why anybody should tell anybody anything. We all have access to the same form guides which all have heaps of information. Most trainers post comments around the internet as well. Some horses fly at home yet get to the track and don't even bother, some do the opposite. I have stopped punting heresay a long time back, as i am more aggrieved when someone tells me that the horse is a an easy winner and it ends up running 6th. Again, trainers, owners, jocks, workriders, grooms may all tell you the horse is spot on, but they have no idea about the other horses in the race and if they have come on or how they training. Its not like football where they send scouts to other yards to see the progress of the competition.

Always nice when you have found a formline you think is solid and a j/t/o gives you a heads up that the horse is well, but other than that use what information is provided and stop blaming other people when you cant get it right.

neigh Wrote:

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> Well said Len. As I always say anyone with R10 can
> be a punter, but not everyone can be an owner. Im
> not a big punter but some owners are and in my
> opinion should have the right to punt their horse
> first, after all it belongs to them. Info from the
> stable to the punters I do agree should be more
> transparent, but there is a time and place for
> that, after the owner has been given the info
> first. Remember he as a owner still has the
> decision/choice to make if he is going to have a
> punt or not. The betting/form is there for the
> punter to make their decisions. Having said that
> most trainer are more than forth-coming with info
> if asked. The only RIGHT here is between owner and
> trainer. The gesture of giving info to punters
> is'nt. This might sound rude, but think about it.
> If only a fair BALANCE can be achieved between
> owner/trainer/punter then we would all be happy!!
> Not easy though !! When it comes to money every
> man is his own island.


neigh....thats where the problem lies...with your thinking.....i agree the info should be given to the owner first..and i think in most cases....the owner knows a week ahead that his horse is being set up.....but if u get stupid owners who dont know how to punt and get on...then its theur own fault...if u think that i am gonna wait for the owner to get on 1 day after the betting opens...then he has got another thing coming....if the owner is sharp enough he would get on as the betting opens or at the same time the "other "person who stole his price.
trouble is there are owners who dont know glitch about punting but wanna cry foul when the price is taken

I wonder how many ''set up'' coups come off...

mr hawaii Wrote:

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> Owners have a right to a punt(owning a horse is
> not cheap) I think but where Trainers could help
> is informing the Media if a horse has a situation
> that could affect the result that is not reflected
> in the racecard - eg recovered from an injury etc

Something i have noticed happens after a horse has won, why is this?

RACING GURU Wrote:

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> neigh Wrote:
>

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>

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> > Well said Len. As I always say anyone with R10
> can
> > be a punter, but not everyone can be an owner.
> Im
> > not a big punter but some owners are and in my
> > opinion should have the right to punt their
> horse
> > first, after all it belongs to them. Info from
> the
> > stable to the punters I do agree should be more
> > transparent, but there is a time and place for
> > that, after the owner has been given the info
> > first. Remember he as a owner still has the
> > decision/choice to make if he is going to have
> a
> > punt or not. The betting/form is there for the
> > punter to make their decisions. Having said
> that
> > most trainer are more than forth-coming with
> info
> > if asked. The only RIGHT here is between owner
> and
> > trainer. The gesture of giving info to punters
> > is'nt. This might sound rude, but think about
> it.
> > If only a fair BALANCE can be achieved between
> > owner/trainer/punter then we would all be
> happy!!
> > Not easy though !! When it comes to money every
> > man is his own island.
>
>
> neigh....thats where the problem lies...with your
> thinking.....i agree the info should be given to
> the owner first..and i think in most cases....the
> owner knows a week ahead that his horse is being
> set up.....but if u get stupid owners who dont
> know how to punt and get on...then its theur own
> fault...if u think that i am gonna wait for the
> owner to get on 1 day after the betting
> opens...then he has got another thing coming....if
> the owner is sharp enough he would get on as the
> betting opens or at the same time the "other
> "person who stole his price.
> trouble is there are owners who dont know glitch
> about punting but wanna cry foul when the price is
> taken


Not many trainers know glitch about punting therefore the owner will be informed [ not all though] the only cry foul i hear is punters who jump in claim the price and the horse doesnt win.... in this case LG said dont back it . All Flash said was hey Guys i hear this is a bomb , which is what our daily thread is all about , big ups to both for sharing their info (tu)

gregbucks Wrote:

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> I wonder how many ''set up'' coups come off...


If the betting is to be believed(horses shortened) then not many - Really it is difficult to win a Race as an owner