Calling the Handicappers or Vee or any experts?!

its not bullshit its fact 2 and 3 years and some 4yos get allocated wfa allowances in handicaps and this depends on the distance and which month of the year it is...the problem with handicapping is nobody takes the time to go onto the nhra website and download the 28 page document which explains the theory of it...punters owners trainers should take the time out to read it and then give comment.....the only other sport where there is hcaping is golf and since rob faux is a golfer and a capitalist i take it he plays everyone off levels :)o

pirates let me make my self more clear. the handicapper should worry about the gross rating no the nett. my feeling is he do the opposite.

pirates Wrote:

---

> its not bullshit its fact 2 and 3 years and some
> 4yos get allocated wfa allowances in handicaps and
> this depends on the distance and which month of
> the year it is...the problem with handicapping is
> nobody takes the time to go onto the nhra website
> and download the 28 page document which explains
> the theory of it...punters owners trainers should
> take the time out to read it and then give
> comment.....the only other sport where there is
> hcaping is golf and since rob faux is a golfer and
> a capitalist i take it he plays everyone off
> levels :

Golf handicaps only apply to recreational or fun golf .................Professional golf ,and it's prize money(stakes), is allocated the capitalist way-the best get the most .........Thank Fukc they don't have MR system .............they would let Gary Player Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus remain competitive in the Masters by letting them play off the ladies tees, thereby keeping the up and coming youngsters in the clubhouse!
Very good analogy Pirates!!!! -

excellent response to cliff rob (tu)

Imagine being able shout ''mulligan'' just before your horse looses by a shorthead...()

pirates Wrote:

---

> its not bullshit its fact 2 and 3 years and some
> 4yos get allocated wfa allowances in handicaps and
> this depends on the distance and which month of
> the year it is...the problem with handicapping is
> nobody takes the time to go onto the nhra website
> and download the 28 page document which explains
> the theory of it...punters owners trainers should
> take the time out to read it and then give
> comment.....the only other sport where there is
> hcaping is golf and since rob faux is a golfer and
> a capitalist i take it he plays everyone off
> levels :)o


Actually Pirates, we all know the theory.... it's the application which is a problem but I forgot...horses grow into their MR's.... all while standing in the stables. And better still the ones that develop fast and are precocious have much
more MR to grow into

This discussion is becoming more and more vague.
There are no concrete examples, just odd ones.

So here's a cunning plan.
Why don't you all pick a race on the weekend card.
Let us know what you think before the race.
In detail, highlighting what's wrong and why.

Then rate the race when it has been run, and give your verdict on what should happen.
In detail.

It might give you some idea of what the handicappers are faced with.
And it might stop the generalities we find in this thread.

So what handicap race(s) do we pick?
One in each centre?
Who has the balls to start the ball rolling?

Karel Miedema Wrote:

---

> This discussion is becoming more and more vague.
> There are no concrete examples, just odd ones.
>
> So here's a cunning plan.
> Why don't you all pick a race on the weekend
> card.
> Let us know what you think before the race.
> In detail, highlighting what's wrong and why.
>
> Then rate the race when it has been run, and give
> your verdict on what should happen.
> In detail.
>
> It might give you some idea of what the
> handicappers are faced with.
> And it might stop the generalities we find in this
> thread.
>
> So what handicap race(s) do we pick?
> One in each centre?
> Who has the balls to start the ball rolling?


The UK handicapper publishes a blog once a week explaining what he done in a race,nice touch imo..

My question to you Karel is, would you be happy owning a horse like ZHIVAGO with his rating? I agree with LouisG that they definitely prevent horses from reaching their true ability and paying for themselves. IMHO it seems that if a horse is running 5 lengths back then they are happy. The NHRA seems happy to handicap horses to run 5 lengths back and not win. As the Shams said earlier, their horse ran 3rd and got 1,5kg's and the top 2 remained the same...so is that horse got any chance meeting the top 2 next time out?

I can't understand how a horse can run 1 good race and get punished but then 10 bad starts before it gets dropped again... Surely not? They won't drop it because they say he may have had a off day but they raise it when he may have had a great day and most others a off day. I find it ridiculous how quickly a horse gets raised and how long it takes to come down.

I started this thread not to have a go at the handicappers but purely for educational purposes for the punters and hopefully for all the punters to learn something... Thank you all for your input.

It would be extremely hard to take up your challenge as the horses form is all off the wrong ratings and how much of it is honest when trainers are trying everything to protect the ratings and if they were correct by any means then it should be a blanket finish in any handicap as well which we far from see.

Where I find the ratings exposed is the the conditions graduations etc...

I'm all for the system however I feel that horses should drop as quick as they go up, ie: don't push them up so quickly and drop them at the same rate, balance!

@Hibs , I like that blog touch, would be good to see the NHRA public a weekly blog on handicapping, that'll keep them on their toes. We are a emerging first world country when it comes to horseracing and I think we can do a better job in this department!

Sharky I cannot for the life of me understand why Z. should be dropped.
The horse clearly is not 100%, given his so way below par runs after a break.
Handicapping is not about single horses, it is about horses in comparison with each other.
If we drop Z. and he then runs to his normal best form again he'd have an unfair advantage, would he not.
I'd accept a drop if you could show that his current rating is blatantly wrong.
I think I showed what my view is earlier in this thread.

Karel, the handicappers agreed early last year to publish the line horse. But still, NOTHING - instead, they make it Robert Garner's problem at Computaform....

Like they dont have a website and yet they want to be a Governing body.... ?!

Just answer the basics, Karel - if the system which you are defending is so good, then why does the weaker horse win more races than the stronger horse. Just explain that to me, the dumb, clueless Trainer who doesnt understand the system.