Calling the Handicappers or Vee or any experts?!

Please could any of the above kindly explain how they asses and rehandicap horses after yesterday's 2 conditions plates for F&M's in both Jhb and Cape Town. Firstly in Jhb Race 4 a MR75 wins, miles out at the weights... Then in CT race 9 a MR77 almost beats a MR91 at level weights and makes a mockery of all the other horses ratings and form. This is happening regularly in these conditions plates where in PE a few weeks ago there was a MR52/55 can't remember exactly also run in the first 3 in a conditions plate, obviously miles out at the weights.

Another thing, how does ZHIVAGO (D Drier) win a MR74 Handicap by half a length beating a bunch of KZN battlers to be honest, go from a MR79 to a MR90? Even at a MR84, he must be the worst handicapped horse in the world. 11 starts 2 wins 3 places and has dismally average form if you ask me and he is a 84, and the way he is running, tell me I'm wrong?

Seriously, I know horseracing is not an exact science but the handicapping seems a joke at the moment.. This is not a dig at the handicappers and this post is meant to be constructive for us punters to understand more. Please could you educate us and constructively answer and elaborate on the above??

Thank you in advance8-)

I know this is slightly of topic

Look at the Cape Guineas and the new marks of Power King and Roman Manner,power King nobbed Roman Manner,beating him a head.. before the race they were rated 87 and 89

Power King is now rated 102 and Roman Manner remains 89

Agree with you Sharky - our handicapping system is in huge trouble (my article in S Post is still there in archives).
In Plate races, the winner cannot be penalised more than 6 points and irrespective of what rating a placed horse runs to, there is NO PENALTY. This is an operator driven condition, to ensure bigger fields for turnover's sake....

Yip, our handicapping system is rubbish.... and plate races almost always prove you and I and multitudes of others to be correct.

Now, here is a curved ball - whilst the Handicappers MAY NOT penalise the placed, far out at weights horse in the plate race, they HAVE EVERY RIGHT to refer back to that run, after next run, when they CAN penalise same horse....on his/her "last 3 runs ". So, there could be those who have no other option other than to run the horse poorly next time out,äfter running way above rating in the plate race, thus vindicating the Handicappers flavour of the month story which they always refer to when shown up, " the herd factor makes horses run above their ratings".

also....... as you mentioned Dennis' horse which was severely penalised, spare a thought for the many Owners whose horses are unfairly penalised and then battle for very long thereafter, especially in plate races, when the far lower horses come and beat them.

Bad handicapping is also driving Punters away, as the game now becomes more Lottery than skill.

louisg Wrote:

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> Agree with you Sharky - our handicapping system is
> in huge trouble (my article in S Post is still
> there in archives).
> In Plate races, the winner cannot be penalised
> more than 6 points and irrespective of what rating
> a placed horse runs to, there is NO PENALTY. This
> is an operator driven condition, to ensure bigger
> fields for turnover's sake....
>
> Yip, our handicapping system is rubbish.... and
> plate races almost always prove you and I and
> multitudes of others to be correct.
>
> Now, here is a curved ball - whilst the
> Handicappers MAY NOT penalise the placed, far out
> at weights horse in the plate race, they HAVE
> EVERY RIGHT to refer back to that run, after next
> run, when they CAN penalise same horse....on
> his/her "last 3 runs ". So, there could be those
> who have no other option other than to run the
> horse poorly next time out,äfter running way
> above rating in the plate race, thus vindicating
> the Handicappers flavour of the month story which
> they always refer to when shown up, " the herd
> factor makes horses run above their ratings".
>
> also....... as you mentioned Dennis' horse which
> was severely penalised, spare a thought for the
> many Owners whose horses are unfairly penalised
> and then battle for very long thereafter,
> especially in plate races, when the far lower
> horses come and beat them.
>
> Bad handicapping is also driving Punters away, as
> the game now becomes more Lottery than skill.


Fully agree Mr Goosen.I feel for the poor owners.These days in Plated races i load up,where other times i looked for bankers in them.Hope things come right soon,or even just gets abit better

if the handicappers are so bad it should be providing all you experts many betting oppurtunities as i assume as punters you do your own handicapping...for the 96th time on this forum dont blame handicapers for the race program and secondly dont blame them because they have been given lids or caps and have their hands tied behind their backs by operators and the so called expert trainers commitee who institute these caps....royal zulu warrior example still burns peoples arses maybe jack dash can recall it for you

pirates Wrote:

---

> if the handicappers are so bad it should be
> providing all you experts many betting
> oppurtunities as i assume as punters you do your
> own handicapping...for the 96th time on this forum
> dont blame handicapers for the race program and
> secondly dont blame them because they have been
> given lids or caps and have their hands tied
> behind their backs by operators and the so called
> expert trainers commitee who institute these
> caps....royal zulu warrior example still burns
> peoples arses maybe jack dash can recall it for
> you


so the owners shouldnt blame the handicappers for raising the MR of their average horse when 2 or 3 'good things' runs badly in a race and he finishes 2nd by 'mistake'???who should they than blame?

For the owners -handicap on monies earned.
For the NHA - for academical sake, continue but remove constraints.
For the punter - do your own handicapping.

heinrich Wrote:

---

> pirates Wrote:
>

---

>

---

> > if the handicappers are so bad it should be
> > providing all you experts many betting
> > oppurtunities as i assume as punters you do
> your
> > own handicapping...for the 96th time on this
> forum
> > dont blame handicapers for the race program and
> > secondly dont blame them because they have been
> > given lids or caps and have their hands tied
> > behind their backs by operators and the so
> called
> > expert trainers commitee who institute these
> > caps....royal zulu warrior example still burns
> > peoples arses maybe jack dash can recall it for
> > you
>
>
> so the owners shouldnt blame the handicappers for
> raising the MR of their average horse when 2 or 3
> 'good things' runs badly in a race and he finishes
> 2nd by 'mistake'???who should they than blame?


Sorry H , you allow your horse in a race it shouldn't win or place in you take the consequence when they do

If the handicapping system were perfect, can you imagine how many more carryovers we would have ?

i take it most if not all on here bet on horses?if the answer is yes i do bet on horses then what you are doing is saying im backing horse A because in my opinion its the best handicaped horse in the race .....now that we have discovered that we are also handicapers how many of us are successful punters or handicapers?not easy hey as according to rob faux only 5 percent make a profit out of punting ...i regards mathew lips as having the finest racing brain in south africa and he is one of the hcapers and based in natal but unfortunately he is not allowed to RATE horses on MERIT because of the pathetic rules that are put in place that tie their hands ....

There is so much Manipulation taking place by Trainers in an attempt to manage a Horse's MR how can a punter do his own assessment of most Races. We have to guess and make assumptions which often are incorrect because we are treated like Mushrooms i.e. get in the dark and fed s--t. So IMO the powers that be have succeeded in reducing Horse Racing to a Lotto type of punting.

Pirates, we would appreciate your opinion on the following race...

Look at The Memorial Mile in PE a few weeks ago...

Won by Celtic Fire (mr101) no points
2nd Silent Partner (mr96) no points
3rd Two Gun Kid (mr91) 3 points

Rest of the field finished more or less on mr except for Changingoftheguard who ran way below form