Professional Suicide by Phumelela Management on Teletrack! What next

I have the highest regard for Daryl Maree as a tipster and on the few occasions that I have met him I find him the proverbial nice guy. This AM i watched part of the racing day show. His best bet (double) was a FIXED PLACE DOUBLE. race 4 no 12 race arlington race 7 decorum. Now I have no doubt DM was just trying to create value for punters BUT this bet CAN only be taken with a BOOKMAKER!!! I just checked out the betting world site they have about 43 branches COUNTRYWIDE. and about 16 in Gauteng. TAB on the other hand has 125 branches in Gauteng alone. As a punter watching the show in a tote I now must take a bookmakers bet if I wish to follow Mr Maree - I have to then find one and chances are i'll find one that is not linked to the operator - I'll then see that I can shop around for best prices so Mr Maree and Pretorius are encouraging punters to look for value outside of the master brand which is the tote. The nature of the FIXED place also shows that Maree and Pretorius do not trust the tote place returns(AUSSIE RULES) so they advocate fixed odds not a Best Tote place bet which is what I would have suggested. The RA should be breaking down the doors in anger at pointing punters to a new market while neglecting the obvious MONOPOLY the tote has. Maree should give best swinger or best tote double or best exacta etc... How on earth can you complain that the open bet is killing your turnover when your staff members are suggesting bets that can only be taken with a bookmaker(You face massive competition in this regard ). I am situated in the JHB CBD and there are at no bettingworld branches around me though there are at least three opposition bookmakers around. There are at least 4-5 TOTE branches around. The business acumen is not there and thank goodness I don't have shares in Phumelela or I would be livid!!! Owners should ask questions as their stakes will eventually be affected by such foolish behaviour - Imagine Pick n Pay announcing on their in store radio that there is a special on baked beans in OK bazaars(when they carry a similar product). I am shocked!!

Mr H

But it happens every day of our racing lives. I mean Telly Track use Bookmakers odds to show the punter opening prices, betting moves, and SP's.

Mr H,I see what you are getting at but I can't agree with your sentiment.If you extend your logic then why not link tellytrack to, and only allow viewing to those with a bet linked to,the operator.(if that sounds farfetched,it is how Betfair operates its video streaming).
I think that tipsters should give the very best advice(or declare that it is an advertisement) and I am sorry but I am suspicious of your motive for this post!

yes but not if we keep getting told that we as owners must use the tote to boost turnover for stakes yet punters in totes will have to LEAVE the tote building to find a bookmaker to take that bet as there are not bookmakers in those totes. I have no ulterior motive rob it just makes good business sense to maximise on your 125 branches (there are way more tote branches than betting world branches so why not suggest a Pick three as the tote player might never return if he finds out how efficient bookmakers are etc.) You also run a futher risk in exposing the guys to soccer doubles and trebles which could harm the soccer six bet(the bookmaker that i'm using has a soccer sectionthat is alays busy with guys taking all sorts of soccer bets in combination.)
I personally am now using bookmakers because i cannot trust an open place bet so it does not affect my betting but the tote punter has no idea that he can do so so advocate this bet if you want stakes to grow and if you feel that place tote payouts will stabilise?). The job of Phumelela is to get more players to use their products not to highlight something where they face stiff competition. We might disagree Rob but please beleive me the only motive I have is to hope that the tote can continue to flourish as without it the little punter racing will dissapear.

I think I'm right when I say that bookmakers pay to broadcast tellytrack,and are therefore paying customers,not the enemy!

What a narrow minded view of things.

If tipsters are advising what they think is a good bet their allegiance lies with the punter, not their employer or anyone else for that matter.

Mr H your opinion unfortunately is too often shared by Phumulela and indeed Tellytrack who very rarely put the punter first.

I guess trying to misguide punters to swell the Phumulela coffers is what you're after then...

If you are paid by Phumelela you should be highlighting their products surely (I realise they give a pick six or PA) to maximise profit for the company. Perhaps I see it differently but that's my opinion

Saksy Wrote:

---

> What a narrow minded view of things.
>
> If tipsters are advising what they think is a good
> bet their allegiance lies with the punter, not
> their employer or anyone else for that matter.
>
> Mr H your opinion unfortunately is too often
> shared by Phumulela and indeed Tellytrack who very
> rarely put the punter first.
>
> I guess trying to misguide punters to swell the
> Phumulela coffers is what you're after then...

Daryl is sharp enough to give punters a good exacta, swinger or quartet with ease. He would not be misguiding anyone and encouraging tote play and hopefully making punters money and adding more money to the stakes pool. Mollett often gives out exacta bets (almost every meeting he's working and many tote players that I know take them as they do his PA - fixed place betting has only become popular since the R1 payout situation - )

I agree with Mr H - the tipsters on a Phumelela show should not influence the public to place an 'open bet' - clear conflict of interest in my view

Just to clarify something say you are in a tote and because you can't have a fixed place double bet you follow daryl and put R10 a place on his first selection(place not win as here you will always get a return if the horse wins) The horse places paying R1 a drum now you back the second one and maybe it pays R1-20 because of the strange betting moves. Now you find that your mate that had acess to a bookmaker took the double and got back 2-1 will you continue to use the tote or try to find a bookmaker next time? I'm living proof of this as I only revieved my bookmaker account because of strange place dividends and now the majority of my bets are fixed place doubles and trebles. And since last week rugby bets which I had not taken for about three years.(Jason D can confirm this if you like)

I think you should remember that the Racing Operators do not own racing.

They may have an exclusive option from the government to run a totalisator scheme, whereby they provide employment, they pay taxes, they deduct a portion for stakes and management.

The fact that a portion of racing is privatized was the outcome of a survival deal with the government and they forced a bee component on top.

The operators are effectively in a partnership with bookmakers who shoulder a large share of the tellytrack bill.

As it happens, the tote monopoly has been allowed a bookmakers licence, which anybody with a telebet acc has access to.

Bits of the monopoly are being chipped into by the open bet. I believe every step lost by the operators to the open bet is either due to credit (which bookmakers give and the operators can match if they want) and poor service (which the operators can also fix).

The tote is the greatest no risk money spinner ever invented after the biggest thief ever, the lotto (a sin tax on the arithmetically challenged).

It's a partnership people, and the bookies have to live with it. LOL.

JD the point is the public are being told that to save racing stakes they must not support bookmakers that use the open bet by my count and I'm sure there are many others I can confirm 15 actual sites in Gauteng (all betting world because i really don't know who does or does not from the remainer of bookies in this province)Now how can you tell me to try to find one of these 15 or so physical places if I don't have a betting world account which i'm sure most tote punters don't have to have a place double. You have 125 tote branches and now you are telling your customers to try to find a venue to take this bet from a top tipster that only 17% of your branches can supply in one province. You are sending your customers to the bookies and I'm sure when they get there they might not come back especially if they receive better service or a wider range of products. My concern is that if the totes lose too many customers how will they ever get them back? (i'm not saying bookmakers give you a better deal I'm just saying why point them in that direction) If the totes start to close who will fund local racing? And how will bookmakers survive. Both are neccesary but we already have betting world ads flighted every couple of races so why push more punters away from tote bets? (i'm not sure even if in 6months time and the tote divs are consistent if I'll ever go back as I'm finding the very same fixed price place double is one of the safest bets around - can Phumelela afford to push more people in this direction?)