RUSSIA/UKRAINE

Wow Lionel, whilst Trump may not have called Putin a genius in the interview, who ordered the invasion of Ukraine, Putin or someone else? It the inference.

Be that as it may, still don't understand where is the intention to invade as a "peace keeping" force. We obviously watching different feeds, in you and Trump's case, the outpouring of peace and love towards Ukrainians, as opposed to abject disregard to the law and human rights.

Putin might be savvy, but the invasion of Ukraine is not that of a savvy person, it's tyrannical.

You must have watched the Manchester derby yesterday, personally i thought what a wonderful human touch by the Premiership, both clubs, supporters and even the broadcasting network, the round table was the colour of the Ukraine flag.

Guess we going to agree to disagree, that's life.

nypost.com/2022/02/23/donald-trump-says-...hina-to-take-taiwan/

The sarcastic "genius" and "savvy" related to the arrogance of declaring the two areas "independent"(if so, they are not considered part of Ukraine by Putin which would not be invading a sovereign country if/when he moved in), moving into those areas on the pretense as "peace-keeper" (against real or imagined atrocities committed against Russia aligned persons in those areas in the post 2014 period) and the impotence of the response from "Joe" and NATO...

But reporting DJT's comments to further push a narrative was all the MSM wanted to do so toss context aside...

DJT is full of bombast and hyperbole so little he says should be taken literally...
This quote from him from many years ago holds true even to now...

“The Art of the Deal,” 1987: The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people’s fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That’s why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It’s an innocent form of exaggeration — and a very effective form of promotion.

TNaicker wrote:

edition.cnn.com/2021/09/17/politics/kabu...-intl-hnk/index.html

No innocent is expendable depending on who the perpetrator is...and no right minded person is going to support the deaths of any innocents...

Ukraine has become the playground for Russia and NATO...and it could have been avoided by NATO halting their eastward push...just stop for two seconds and think that at one stage the furthest east that NATO membership extended was the intergation of East Germany...now, Estonia and Latvia have been co-opted and share a border with Russia to the north with only Ukraine (central and largest of the 3), Belarus and Maldova acting as a buffer...and with China threatening, especially water resources, in Russia's east, Russia likely feeling encircled by threats...

I repeat that going to war with Ukraine was wrong so I'm not advocating Putin's position...just giving my opinion on that basis of what I can see...

When did NATO and or their forces enter Ukraine during THIS war? Ukraine is not a member of NATO last time we all checked. Whoever wrote this article, are they and you of the opinion that Ukraine does not have the right to self governance. Surely if Ukraine wanted to join/be part of the Russia/China and or North Korea alliance, if one exists, no doubt they would have. My understanding, Ukraine wants to be a democratic nation and not a Communist nation, and somehow you appear to think Ukraine has not right to exercise their/this choice.

TNaicker wrote:

nypost.com/2022/02/23/donald-trump-says-...hina-to-take-taiwan/

The sarcastic "genius" and "savvy" related to the arrogance of declaring the two areas "independent"(if so, they are not considered part of Ukraine by Putin which would not be invading a sovereign country if/when he moved in), moving into those areas on the pretense as "peace-keeper" (against real or imagined atrocities committed against Russia aligned persons in those areas in the post 2014 period) and the impotence of the response from "Joe" and NATO...

But reporting DJT's comments to further push a narrative was all the MSM wanted to do so toss context aside...

DJT is full of bombast and hyperbole so little he says should be taken literally...
This quote from him from many years ago holds true even to now...

“The Art of the Deal,” 1987: The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people’s fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That’s why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It’s an innocent form of exaggeration — and a very effective form of promotion.

That is Trump's and the Conservative's play narration - it's all hyperbole and not meant to be taken literally. Ever noticed, when "they" make these hyperbolic statements, they never say it should not be taken literally?

The insurrectionists say Trump told them to invade the Capitol - why didn't Trump clarify what he meant when making that speech? He's actually proposed offering pardons should he be re-elected in 2024. Actually condoning what is wrong.

Just like the dippy lawyer, Sidney Powell, went to Court on the Dominion allegations saying that no one actually believes what she said to be true, votes can be changed fro Trump to Biden, some dead guy did the same thing in Venezuela, a $1B later.

I don't believe this rhetoric is intended to be hyperbole, i could be wrong.

@bayern...I did not say that NATO and or their forces entered Ukraine...I'm saying that NATO has consistently expanded east towards Russia (in violation of agreements made as far back as the 1990's when East Germany was intergrated) such that they are now on Russia's border (2 members are already on Russia's borders)...who is being intimidatory when you conduct yourself in such a manner? Ukraine being one of 3 remaining countries acting as a buffer...
I repeat that Russia invading Ukraine, whatever the pretext, is WRONG...any violence is a failure of the intellect to resolve matters...we just mustn't lose sight of what NATO has been doing...

@bayern...MSM narrative and talking points are always to push DJT's bombast and hyperbole as evidence of his numerous lies...but stripped of the hyperbole, not everything is as interpretted...everything taken too literally...the man's command of English is not great and he speaks before thinking through how he is going to be perceived / interpretted...he cannot be accused of talking out of both sides of his mouth at the same time as he does not have a politician's gift...

Some people get him, others don't...the wife was an ardent Killary supporter in 2016 to the extent that she stated that Killary was the most qualified and deserving of becoming POTUS and wouldn't tolerate any remotely bad thing being said about her...through the early parts (first 2-3 years) of DJT's presidency, we had satellite TV and viewed many of the MSM and she assessed what he said and what the media said about DJT and what he actually did (no new wars, tried to get enemies to the table, etc) and is so grateful that Killary did not become POTUS...and the wife is a very intelligent lady...or maybe we are just becoming more conservative as we get older and want no assocation with the leftists' (and that includes the ANC and US Democrats) insanity that is engulfing every aspect of life now...

Stay safe and healthy...I wish no ill upon anyone that does not align with my opinions on things...a different view forces me to evaluate my own thinking and if something convicing is put forward, after evaluation, I'm not inflexible...

TNaicker wrote:

@bayern...I did not say that NATO and or their forces entered Ukraine...I'm saying that NATO has consistently expanded east towards Russia (in violation of agreements made as far back as the 1990's when East Germany was intergrated) such that they are now on Russia's border (2 members are already on Russia's borders)...who is being intimidatory when you conduct yourself in such a manner? Ukraine being one of 3 remaining countries acting as a buffer...
I repeat that Russia invading Ukraine, whatever the pretext, is WRONG...any violence is a failure of the intellect to resolve matters...we just mustn't lose sight of what NATO has been doing...

Depends who's version of truth you want to believe :-

But the decision to accept former members of the Warsaw Pact, the defensive alliance which included the USSR and several eastern European countries, is being subject to a revisionist history. This is perpetuating a myth that Nato promised not to expand eastwards after the Soviet Union dissolved.

In 2014, the former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev marked the 25th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin wall by noting in an interview that that Nato’s enlargement “was not discussed at all” at the time:

Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn’t bring it up, either.

There was, he said, no promise not to enlarge the alliance, though in the same interview Gorbachev also stated that he thinks that enlargement was a “big mistake” and “a violation of the spirit of the statements and assurances made” in 1990.

The last paragraph is interesting, now we can see where Trump gets his hyperbolic tendencies from

@bayern...the eastern half (roughly) is Russian aligned and the western half more European aligned...Ukraine had a pro-Russia president (Yanukovych) in 2014 ...opposed to joining NATO...US State Department supported rebellion that overthrew his government to have pro-NATO / anti-Russian Poroshenko installed and those in the east that supported Yanukovych were targeted by the new Ukranian government...then aid money flowed to government, who dispensed to oligarchs who have a few US politicians children (not just Hunter Biden) on their books...when DJT stopped some of the financial aid to get Zelenskyy to look into the money laundering, it threatened the flow of "aid" money back to the US and the result was that they had DJT impeached...

Very little of this history is spoken off as we have taken clear views or who the good guys and bad buys are...but there are no good guys...they are all tainted in their pursuit of wealth and power and it is the innocents who get caught in the cross-fire of bruised egos...

Read and weep Trump puppets

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com...ussia-ukraine-crisis

bayern wrote:

Wow Lionel, whilst Trump may not have called Putin a genius in the interview, who ordered the invasion of Ukraine, Putin or someone else? It the inference.

Be that as it may, still don't understand where is the intention to invade as a "peace keeping" force. We obviously watching different feeds, in you and Trump's case, the outpouring of peace and love towards Ukrainians, as opposed to abject disregard to the law and human rights.

Putin might be savvy, but the invasion of Ukraine is not that of a savvy person, it's tyrannical.

You must have watched the Manchester derby yesterday, personally i thought what a wonderful human touch by the Premiership, both clubs, supporters and even the broadcasting network, the round table was the colour of the Ukraine flag.

Guess we going to agree to disagree, that's life.

Bayern, what Trump is saying in that piece, is that Vladimir based his invasion/war/barbarism on the pretext that the area he is going into is "independent" and that he is going in as a "peacekeeping force".

Trump was being sarcastic when he said that that was the largest peacekeeping force he has ever seen. Implying that, he knew and everyone should know, that Vladimir was lying.

Yes, I did watch the game. All the support for Ukraine and its people is touching. Its a travesty what is happening there. As Zelelnksy said, "God will not forgive. We will not forget".

Lionel wrote:

bayern wrote:

Wow Lionel, whilst Trump may not have called Putin a genius in the interview, who ordered the invasion of Ukraine, Putin or someone else? It the inference.

Be that as it may, still don't understand where is the intention to invade as a "peace keeping" force. We obviously watching different feeds, in you and Trump's case, the outpouring of peace and love towards Ukrainians, as opposed to abject disregard to the law and human rights.

Putin might be savvy, but the invasion of Ukraine is not that of a savvy person, it's tyrannical.

You must have watched the Manchester derby yesterday, personally i thought what a wonderful human touch by the Premiership, both clubs, supporters and even the broadcasting network, the round table was the colour of the Ukraine flag.

Guess we going to agree to disagree, that's life.

Bayern, what Trump is saying in that piece, is that Vladimir based his invasion/war/barbarism on the pretext that the area he is going into is "independent" and that he is going in as a "peacekeeping force".

Trump was being sarcastic when he said that that was the largest peacekeeping force he has ever seen. Implying that, he knew and everyone should know, that Vladimir was lying.

Yes, I did watch the game. All the support for Ukraine and its people is touching. Its a travesty what is happening there. As Zelelnksy said, "God will not forgive. We will not forget".

I fully understand what both you and TN are saying. Whilst the Ukrainian northeast region speak Russia and may have affinity to Russia, why don't they leave Ukraine and settle in Russia? Both you and i know what you are advocating is garbage - please explain the annexation of Crimea which is way south.

I think Trump and Putin are cut from the same lying cloth - the supposed sarcasm is just an effort to try and walk back the faux pas. Trump condemned the invasion, fact, he is not condemning Putin publicly. Don't try and look smart,act smart.

This is not a game, innocent people are dying.

CnC 306 wrote:

Read and weep Trump puppets

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com...ussia-ukraine-crisis

The article does not open on my side, resend to complete address.