Quick poll, do you believe that some South African horse races are fixed?

Rob, I just took a step down memory lane and re watched the panorama doc,
Although 10 year old and most of the cases were dealt with it just shows you the mentality
of the regulatory bodies

While they were filming Man 'O War's only defeat the movie makers had to reshoot the scene many many times cos the horse who wasnt supposed to win kept on winning.....

Hibs,that was part of my fascination........the blokes being interviewed from the BHA were shown to be as evasive/ devious as the ones they were supposed to regulate!

Craig Eudey Wrote:

---

> A since retired( and very well off) bookmaker once
> said to me that in a 14 horse field I had 1 horse
> on my side and he had 13. Not going to beat him
> very often.

100%. The odds are in the layer's favour, even in the most squeaky clean of situations. I know from experience that a bookmaker can operate very successfully and grow into a major national chain by playing the game absolutely straight and employing intelligemt business principles, without even considering for an instant getting involved in any skulduggery.

Bookies have their ups and downs, obviously, but in the long run the odds have to be in their favour by definition. This of course is not to say that no punter can ever win long term. There are those who do, but it's all about probabilities and the bookie has the obvious advantage of having many more horses running for than against him, in direct contrast to the punter. On the other hand, bookmakers have overheads (wages, rent, and many other expenses) that punters don't, so anyone who thinks that a bookmaker's licence is automatically a licence to print money needs to think again. There is no such thing as a licence to print money, unless you're the Mint, and even then the money isn't yours.

Racing ( any where ) and gambling has never been "CLEAN" and will never be (clean) !

*** Punter's have far better chances (to win) while betting on SPORTS (in-running betting) AND "HEDGING" the bets (when in favourable situation ).

could I pose a derivative question here by asking: is racing perceived to be fixed in Hong Kong/Japan? (as opposed to the perception in i.e. UK and SAF).

Don Wrote:

---

> could I pose a derivative question here by asking:
> is racing perceived to be fixed in Hong
> Kong/Japan? (as opposed to the perception in i.e.
> UK and SAF).

I read a report that discussed your question. As it happened South African racing was judged as being relatively small and well policed. It was considered much straighter than northern UK for eg (which I know nothing about).

Racing in the East is considered straight, but the gambling is very big and was suspected of a long and murky influence. If the US have the mob and illegal bookmakers, the east has the Triads.

Hong Kong is so localised and the Jockey Club so powerful and rich (because they control ALL the income) that almost everyone considers it the crown jewel of straightness.

Both north and South America have their own thing going and neither are notorius for catching anyone. Perhaps everyone is straight as an arrow in the Americas? SA is considered more transparent than many regions. Australia is considered well policed and proffessional.

Italy, Germany and France hardly merited much mention, racing is relatively unimportant there. This from memory, will look for report.

But I guess you trying to make the point that we suck?

Race 6 Flamingo Park was obviously a fixed race, what concerns "president elect".
even if someone knows, that a horse is not fit (or something else), and lays this horse, i would call this "fixed" in some way.
at least you can call it a dirty game.

Having not posted here for a while might have missed a comment or two but racing thrives on conspiracy stories

And no doubt Race 8 Durbanville March 11 has been picked up on the forum before : but just as a reminder

Act of Faith opened 8/10 started 13/10
Cognac on Ice opened 2/1 started 16/10

Cognac on Ice who normally comes from the rear lead from the start and "faded"
Act of Faith consistently ran up its backside and as far as I am aware the jock concerned has not had another ride for the trainer

Betting was 10/1 bar

Quartet carry over

Amanzi sp 11/1 piad somehwere in the R5 s for a win

CARRY OVER quartet paid R 4500 ........... with both favourites off the board

Neat

Jack, no not trying to make the point that SAF sucks - just trying to establish whether a kamikaze approach with proper follow through has a positive effect on perception. If so, it would be in SAF's best interest to follow suit. My point is that the question posed was '...do you believe that races in SAF are fixed..' meaning, the perception may be different from the truth.

SAF probably has reasonable modern and updated policing systems with relative good follow through compared to a lot of countries who operate racing on a big scale, but the public perception is still stuck in the 70's. People out there have not been made aware of the systems in place and what actually happens when things go wrong. If they were updated about this, the perception may be different.

Its a bit like watching the UK programme on TV called 'border control' - about the UK border agency and how search people at the airports for contraband and track down illegal immigrants etc. There is a similar programme screened here that shows the Aus border control at work too.

Lets try another angle. All jockeys in SA have to reach a certain standard in order to race ride, therefore they are all better than the average joe horse rider but lets look at this statement in the context of the topic....

Hypothetically, I am in the lower end of the trainers log with "camels", and a few "donkeys". During the course of the last few months one of my camels wakes up to realise why connections have put so much into him and decides he is a race horse. Everyone in the stable and connections realise the opportunity and put him in a race where he has an excellent chance of winning.

In all of this excitement, owners want one of the top 3 on the jockeys log to ensure victory. Me the wiley trainer says "No, no never! We will put one of the bottom of the table riders on, we will get a better price and all this jock has to do is stay on, point and win!" ....at a price of 30/1 of course.

Is this a form of fixing? It certainly is fixing greater odds for those in the loop! Please dont tell me this has never happened. Betting Coups are a reality. Granted not everyone of them is a success.

We look at perceptions and faults in the game and the above clearly illustrates a fault.

a fault which is moral accountability that needs to filter all the way down and up the line. But in reality - this will never happen, there will always be a margin of deviance.