Pick 6 rules changes

rob faux Wrote:

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> Titch Wrote:
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>

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> > A far better option would have been to leave
> the
> > coupling/scratching rule as is and do away with
> %
> > betting ...
>
>
> That would be my worst option. I want to spend
> what I regard a bet is worth ...........and I
> don't want to resort to syndicates (td)(td)(td)


Also find it hard to see the logic in doing away with % - for me the bet was just fine the way it was

Frodo Wrote:

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> rob faux Wrote:
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>

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> > Titch Wrote:
> >
>

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>
> >

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> > > A far better option would have been to leave
> > the
> > > coupling/scratching rule as is and do away
> with
> > %
> > > betting ...
> >
> >
> > That would be my worst option. I want to spend
> > what I regard a bet is worth ...........and I
> > don't want to resort to syndicates (td)(td)(td)
>
>
> Also find it hard to see the logic in doing away
> with % - for me the bet was just fine the way it
> was

if fractional betting on the P6 was eliminated the bet would die

Frodo Wrote:

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> rob faux Wrote:
>

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>

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> > Titch Wrote:
> >
>

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>
> >

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> > > A far better option would have been to leave
> > the
> > > coupling/scratching rule as is and do away
> with
> > %
> > > betting ...
> >
> >
> > That would be my worst option. I want to spend
> > what I regard a bet is worth ...........and I
> > don't want to resort to syndicates (td)(td)(td)
>
>
> Also find it hard to see the logic in doing away
> with % - for me the bet was just fine the way it
> was


If it was up to me I would have left the P6 the way it was ,have fractional betting but the unit bet increased to at least R2.50.........multi-race exotics were 50c units in the 60's,so the R1 unit has only doubled in way over 30 years(If cars were the same,a 520i BMW would cost R20,000 today !!!! a new 520i cost R9,999 in the 60's)
I would then introduce the bi-pot as the "dream" bet to compete with the lotto @ R10 a unit ,no fractional betting............how dreamy would the lotto be at 5c a ticket??

besides pe and kimberly how often does the so called wrong one from the yard actually win?

pirates Wrote:

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> besides pe and kimberly how often does the so
> called wrong one from the yard actually win?


On the highveld it does happen every now and then - not regularly, but it does happen

I am not unhappy about the bet getting harder to catch...........
When I started racing the Jackpot was really worth catching ,some life changing and carryovers were not uncommon.
Everything that cost 50c then costs at least R15 today and most nearer R30.
So if jackpots cost ,say,R25 a line ,you could include couplings(as they always were), and you would get the big big payouts still.

So,if racing had merely kept pace with the rest of life we wouldn't need all this "brilliant" (sic) innovation.

What should surely be unacceptable is for insider trading (ie insiders having a knowledge and an edge over the general public) to be a crime when"gambling" on shares,but regarded as innovative in racing.You cannot ignore that R2/3m rand pools will encourage using it to advantage.

Harder is good ...........unfair is bad!

Justanotherpunter Wrote:

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> I'm not naming anybody.
>
> Just letting people know the reality.This is not a
> small firm.


U just put me in the mood...{I was warned not to uses Names ,there are alway issue,it is belive that there was an issue between a few clanmen.}

Bingo Park, Eastern cape and Western cape will be pay pay.(tu)

infact Western Cape is having A party with the Jackpot... Take notic ... It happen in the last 3 meeting.. Check today's result..

If u can master it then u get that pick 6 .. It going to pay..(tu)

Monday Eastern Cape..what a place to start .. Time trails.{Friday there was a test and it was good} check Friday's result..

Just hope Natal or Jhb dont get the Taste..(tu)

Just to stir the pot...Easier to catch a big P6 if you know which horses to leave out....()

Pirhobeta Wrote:

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> Just to stir the pot...Easier to catch a big P6 if
> you know which horses to leave out....()


That is exactly the point!!

When the pick 6 was introduced back in the 1980's, we did not have MR handicaps. There were plenty of Novice, Graduation and Progress plates and the rest were race figure conditions races ( wrongly called handicaps). The form student who understood the proper principles of handicapping could often find a solid banker or two and could narrow most races down to a few runners with real chances. Yes there were upsets and favourites still only won 1/3 of the time. However, one had a sporting chance of catching a nice payout with a reasonable perm even with the initial 50c per line unit. ( 50c then equivalent to R30 now). The tote system could not handle fractions back then so the 10c unit was introduced to make the bet more affordable and to broaden the appeal. Fractional betting allows the smaller punter the chance to catch the harder outcomes. However fractional betting has a major disadvantage whenever there is less than one full winning ticket in that your payout is limited. Reducing the unit cost is better for small punters than allowing fractions. Suppose the pick 6 were 1c per line ( with a reasonable minimum ticket size of say R20 to avoid unprofitable small transactions). Then a perm with 10000 combinations costs you R100. If you are the only winning ticket you get the whole pool. The same size perm with R1 unit cost under fractional betting allows you only 1%. most of the time the outcome is the same, except when there is less than 1 full winning ticket. I can't get excited by winning a couple of % of even the biggest pool, but the possibility of the whole pool is exciting.
MR handicaps have made the exotics harder to catch and the opportunities ironically are presented through misjudgments by the official handicappers and through some of the restrictions placed on them.
The couplings rule was introduced to reduce the possibility of insider manipulation. Unfortunately it also penalizes the astute punter who spots a value runner which happens to be coupled to a shorter priced runner. It is a judgement call as to which is more important.
However couplings somewhat offset the greater difficulty posed by large fields of closely handicapped runners.
Ignoring couplings makes sense in the Jackpot because with 4 legs the average punter has a reasonable chance with an affordable perm.
In the pick 6 at R1 per line, I don't think it is attractive for the average punter. He either has a derisory percentage or will have a very small chance of winning and will get disillusioned with not winning.
The saddest thing is how many people take their exotics through the open bet. If all these came into the tote then the pools would be 2 or 3 times their current size and racing would have the revenue to develop the infrastructure for horseplayers and to maintain attractive stakes. Punters might argue stakes are only important to owners, trainers and jockeys and not to them. However, the more attractive stakes are, the more likely that horses will be raced on merit for the stakes and the less likely that manipulation for betting purposes will occur. That's good for punters.

Great post PeterD!!(tu)

Yes...I agree...good post....Peterd....(tu)