Flyfirstclass

tell me leon and mr hawaai do you know the differnce between a horse being fit for a race and a horse being tuned up for a race?any trainer in the world who targets a certain race in mind will never have a horse fully wound up in its prep runs for the particular race in he targets but the horse will always have its fitness...horses aint machines they are flesh and blood and cannot be at their peak for every single run...another thing you cannot train horses out of a manual ...

just for interest what are the thoughts about the winner (visser horse)... looked to me as if he won with plenty in hand??

Lsetaro Wrote:

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> Trainers running horses when they are not fit is
> one of the primary reasons why form lines fail
> with unpredictable regularity.


Are you fuck serious? GVZ basically says for every horse, the horse is unfit, will need the run etc (including shogunnar). Why dnt u post your above comment on the team g website.

Craig, I have absolutely no idea why you even bother.

Harris Wrote:

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> Craig, I have absolutely no idea why you even
> bother.


That i agree with

Hilton let me set it out for you - The race horse training methods devised +60 years ago that are still in use today by the majority of SA trainers, do not represent the pinnacle of conditioning achievement anymore. Time has passed and the world has progressed. If anything those old methods are obsolete! Open you mind to change my friend. Races do not need to be used to get a horse fit, that's the old school guesswork way. A horse can in fact be comfortably taken to peak on the training tracks.. just not with your +60 year old methods! And your 'training out of a manual' comment is way out of line. I WROTE the fucking manual backed up by successful trials, do you understand the difference? Do you understand what innovation means?

And getting on to Craig, I'm not having a go at you nor stating what you did was wrong. I was using this FFC scenario as an example to illustrate one of the primary reasons why form doesn't always work out. It's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of reality. Punters need to understand that not every horse steps out in every race in peak condition for a peak run and this can be for any one of countless different reasons (most of which lead back to the trainer). I've seen similar situations go the other way where the horse has hacked in 'fat as a pig' contrary to trainer's expectation. I was merely sharing a fact about the races.

Since you're brought it up though, personally I wouldn't race a horse that 'won't work at home' irrespective of what cherry is up and coming on the program but that's just my opinion based on my experience. As for the 'one race equals four gallops' you mention, well that's a typical old school statement that would never hold up to scrutiny. Different trainers use different training methods and have different views on what constitutes 'work'. Then you still have to factor in that 'race' and 'gallop' are non-specific terms dependent on comparative factors such as track surface/condition, speed, distance, gradient, rider weight, horse weight etc etc. When I fine-tuned horses it was standard procedure that certain morning sessions equated to harder work than what they'd face in a race. That's why they could breeze through the race like a workout and be ready for duty the next morning without breaking a sweat. Where does that fit into your one race = 4 gallops picture?

You are right Harris. Leon I am not going to argue with you. Cannot be bothered. Maybe take out your own license and show us. One race IS worth 4 gallops and you would not race a horse that does not work itself hard at home?????????? Should I retire him?

leon send us a copy of your trainers manual i havent read a comic for years..

sorry who is these leon guy it sound like he now a lot

When did you ever think you would see Pirates, Easy and myself all on the same side? We must be right!

Craig I've already shown you before.. and I believe you still owe me a beer thanks to your horse getting thrashed by mine at the races. And I suppose training a horse to run 2nd on Wednesday, and then win 3 days later on the Saturday proves nothing as well? And this only 2 weeks after brushing off your challenge with the same horse (with all 3 races being over ground and not mickey mouse sprints).

But then again if you can't accept De Kock's record as being through superior training ability rather than luck then I'm the fool for trying to prove a point to you with my meager examples.

Leon, next time you see Mike ask him about luck. He told me himself that he has been extremely lucky in his racing life. Even he will tell you that the huge majority of what a horse does lies in the natural ability of the horse. No one can take away what he has done and I have the upmost respect for him and his achievements. A great ambassador for SA racing. You know where to find me after work for your beer anytime. I cannot even remember what it was for but will buy anyway. -D