What a coup!!

I suppose the urine tests came back clear?

Don wrote: I suppose the urine tests came back clear?

No need to use substances when the form manipulation can achieve the same without fear of action.

This was a perfect example:2 horses ,shocking form reducing MR, and yet both were KNOWN to be returning to form ON THE SAME DAY, so evidenced by the Jock arrangements and betting activity...........unless of course that was a complete coincidence.................lol.

still, inside information used to profiteer.
No Rob, how did everyone know about it - surmised by the jock booked? could a jock ensure a 10 length improvement? it's not the jock running the race!
also, how did the bookies not know, and if everyone had known more, it would not have opened at the odds it did? surely?
what you are saying is that punters are stoopid, and bookies. Admittedly, yes, some are less informed than others and watch less closely. If everyone had equal access to information - ?
I don't punt. Just stumped as to how this is allowed to happen so easily.

If I have a very battling horse entered into a race does that mean I am not allowed to win?

Don wrote: still, inside information used to profiteer.
No Rob, how did everyone know about it - surmised by the jock booked? could a jock ensure a 10 length improvement? it's not the jock running the race!
also, how did the bookies not know, and if everyone had known more, it would not have opened at the odds it did? surely?
what you are saying is that punters are stoopid, and bookies. Admittedly, yes, some are less informed than others and watch less closely. If everyone had equal access to information - ?
I don't punt. Just stumped as to how this is allowed to happen so easily.

I don't know about Bookies being stupid,but they are Big Cry Babies

After having bets on those 2 and another 20/1 poke,I have just been restricted to £1-90 ew on a 8/1 poke..

My post clearly misunderstood .................I am not justifying the situation ..............I am pointing out that the MR is open to manipulation,as I have been saying on this forum for months............... I suggested this very scenario and this was reasonable proof for me(or amazing coincidence)
This is also such a small stable that keeping the plan under wraps would have been easier than in many other situations-by the time the bookies and punters cottoned on, most of the money was down (and how come bookies and punters have fallen for ringers from small stables in the past??)

(Mac ,if you think this was just 2 battling horses that suddenly happened to come well,you probably believe in Santa Claus!!)

Rob, I understood you meant that - the MR is open to manipulation. What I am referring to is how the move is justified to the public punter - that they should've noticed the jock booked.

ps, HOw sure are we it wasn't Happy Feet making a guest appearance in both races? lol

So what about Western Wonder yesterday? 66/1 to 7/1 it was absolutely the same. No moans about that one, or did more people back it after they missed out at Bingo?

Bunks wrote: So what about Western Wonder yesterday? 66/1 to 7/1 it was absolutely the same. No moans about that one, or did more people back it after they missed out at Bingo?

I couldn't complain .................I had it 3rd on my ratings(as did Formstar) and value threshold at 6/1...........so 66/1 was a bookies mistake IMO.

rob faux wrote: My post clearly misunderstood .................I am not justifying the situation ..............I am pointing out that the MR is open to manipulation,as I have been saying on this forum for months............... I suggested this very scenario and this was reasonable proof for me(or amazing coincidence)
This is also such a small stable that keeping the plan under wraps would have been easier than in many other situations-by the time the bookies and punters cottoned on, most of the money was down (and how come bookies and punters have fallen for ringers from small stables in the past??)

(Mac ,if you think this was just 2 battling horses that suddenly happened to come well,you probably believe in Santa Claus!!)

As you have told me and the NHRA the starting point is the MR of a horse if you are to to use the "in and out running rule". If a horse runs 10 points below its official MR for no good reason(or improves by that margin) then why is this rule not implemented? You cannot have a MR system to handicap and create races(and thereby a "book" ) and then banish that system when it comes to sanctioning and suspending "form muckers". Either you accept that the basis for handicapping is the MR system or you don't. If you accept this as a Stipe you must act when such anomalies, coupled with irregular betting patterns, occur. I see no reason why an inquiry cannot be held a few days later with a handicapper present to rate the field when such events occur.

FACT is form manipulation should not happen PERIOD.

However due to NOT having trials for 1st timers prior to their debut and NOT having sectional timing it is the norm of the day... and those profiting from it is simply stealing money from the public not giving everyone the same fair chance...

it should not come to that though for trainers to survive but that is due to the vicious cycle that crime and corruption paves in any industry... and in the process they just find themselves stuck in that vicious cycle with no new market support from public since yes they (and their grooms ) also need to make a living... but this route leads to everyone in this industry inevitable alone...and broke...

This is the information era, make the information available to all and the industry will have a lot more support...make it fun and entertaining for all but with a common base fair chance to succeed whether you are the trainer, owner or betting public...and different revenue streams will arrive at your doorstep Mr Trainer, Mr jockey ... a full "stadium" to watch you entertain us LEGALLY.. but what has happened here with Kotze/Cheyne cannot be good for the industry....

GREED will ruin any industry... laws are made to keep it from happening but racing is in a free fall and those in the know is trying to get the last straws of survival from it's crutches until it finally dies... enjoy your winnings Mr trainer, Mr jockey ... in the long run the joke is on you :silly:

Thanks Mr h and Loopy for keeping sight of the big picture............the trust required for racing to thrive!!