pirates wrote: mr hawaai your reasoning is flawed as copper parade the equus champion sprinter I believe and blaze of fire to a lesser degree performed extremely well in the major centres in group one races
Sorry Pirates Copper raced in Kzn and Cape Town as a baby did he not and won (He raided there)? These are the EXCEPTIONS or Greeff, Smith etc would be raiding every week for better stakes. They are perhaps PE bred horses who start out their careers there. The average horse that races in PE is coming from a stronger centre where HE COULD NOT EARN at his rating - Now why suddenly does he start earning? Is it because he's suddenly grown an extra leg or the trainers there are the best in the world? No he's racing against weaker horses so he has a flattered rating as he achieves that against others that could not compete in their home province. Just look at how many horses suddenly seem to gain a new lease on life there - For no other reason than the horses they face there are not as strong as in bigger centres.
I think a pertinent question is will racing survive with only say 20/25 trainers left? If the big get bigger and greedier to the detriment of the small trainer and they have to stop training, will it survive. I have my doubts. 60-70% of my owners have indicated that they only race for fun and they would not want to be part of a big stable. They have said if it came to that they would sell up and just watch racing but not actually be involved. As I have said before, racing needs a wide base and killing off the smaller guys would make it easy to push over. A good medium sized trainer said to me that he lost a very mediocre horse to a big trainer a few months ago. This trainer actively badgered the owner to move it to him even though it was moderate and he already had 100+ horses! :blink:
I thought MR's applied to all horses throughout SA? How can it be that a lower rated horse in the Cape can have an advantage over an ostensibly overrated horse in PE. Makes no sense to me. Is the handicapper not doing his job then?
I am not for protectionism however i do have a different take on the situation and while i may not agree with the approach i do wonder about a few issues:
1. There is absolutely no problem with taking top horses to different centers in the various main seasons and racing.
2. Every center should make the same amount of boxes available to visitors.
This being said i am sick and tired of listening to the Cape Trainers crying...... boooo hooo
If they have the best horses on average why then have such small fields in Cape Town races??? They have so many horses in training then why not race them in CPT??? The punting pools in CPT are kuk and if every center ran its racing based on the punting pools then CPT would be a smaller racing center than PE.
What is it that the CPT trainers want? To have the most horses and satellite yards all over the country without restriction because they don't stage enough races?
abacus wrote: I thought MR's applied to all horses throughout SA? How can it be that a lower rated horse in the Cape can have an advantage over an ostensibly overrated horse in PE. Makes no sense to me. Is the handicapper not doing his job then?
Exactly Bob. It should be relatively simple. If a Cape horse (as an example) say with a MR of 72 beats a field of MR 80 PE horses adjust the field down or the, clearly offending horse , up. No? ... or am I over simplifying it?
My point is that either the MR system is failing in which case the PE trainers may have a point or we have a bunch of whining losers. I can't see anything inbetween. It appears as if the former is true however, otherwise it would be less attractive and profitable to raid if there was a level playing field. And lets face it they are making a business out of raiding PE!
Passerini gave stables to Bremner instead of next in line which should have been Laing .Phum do what they like never mind trainers list of stables .Bremner had 56 already now has 84 ,Laing only 36 and did not get offered she was next on list
Morning....lots of good points here from different "sides of the fence" and all with merit.
The main issues are....
1 Yes Englander, PE is traditionally where lesser talented/older/ soundness/ other issues horses end up. It's also why we have lesser stakes!!!!! Sometimes that's what they need to be competitive ie Pemba. But there is no way that he can suddenly go back to ?Jhb and be a multiple winner. All the PE trainers want is to be able to fill fields with PE based horses and to give their owners who pay bills chance to earn some stakes. This includes horses that "live" in PE satellite yards. The current conditions allow visitors as much rights to race as we do so when they want to raid here can do so with no restraint. A Cape or Jhb MR is no way equal to our MR here. They are about 6/8 points better than us. Yes there are horses that go out of PE and star but they are in the minority. Just in the 6 years that we have been involved the PE levels of competitive horses have grown but it's still lower than WC or Jhb and these horses deserve to be "stars" in their own region.
2 There is a shortage of stables countrywide and the complaint here is that visitors are been given first choice over local trainers that want/ need more stables to increase their business.
Local is lekker !!!!
Interesting post CRacer. .. so much for the "big boys" who, according to this site, "control racing".... you are telling us that Tara trains for MJ, yet got overlooked for extra stables and that Yvette got them instead....
As for Craig ' earlier post - Craig, I am definitely not calling for the demise of any Trainer or Trainers. Like you, I agree that we need every one, big,small, young,old, ultra competitive and the ones who race for fun. Together, we make the whole.
But, we must face facts, especially those beyond our control and beyond the control of racing itself. These include being aware of the fact that Sasol are retrenching 3500 people, MTN 1000 people, Mittal is closing. Since the metal workers strike, more than 300 privately owned companies/engineering shops have reduced their staff by an average of 35% . Times are very tough.....
And when times are tough, the first belt that is tightened is the one that fits the leisure rand. And the Owner who races " for fun" will remain, but his 3 horses will become 1 horse.... do the sums.
All that I am saying is that very tough times are upon us and that we must adapt. .....or die.
Protectionism, especially of white people in a "white" leisure industry will not be tolerated by govt. And if they step in, it will change the game forever. ...
Rather we all work harder, for the good of racing and when/if we are not current or part of the solution, we should step aside. But, our first and foremost goal should be to adapt and survive this era.
Very well said the lower rated horses are weaker than the rest of the country and pe has plenty of them every week horses are eliminated due to the over flow of lower rated horses the higher rated horses from away are Welkom pe don't fill them most of the time and true their is a problem with trying to get more stables it's very frustrating
I know a couple of guys in PE who have had local horses with "Visitor" (sic) yards so the point in time clearly arrives where they are no longer satellite yards but part of the local scene. More choice to local owners.
Who are the "visitors"? I know Mr Marshall, Bass and Kotzen have few horses in PE and dont even raid all the time?
I honestly dont count Mr Snaith as a "visitor". He has had a stable there for many many years, but clearly not seen as "part of the furniture" unfortunately.
Cant remember who said CTN should apply for more races.........perhaps PE should apply for more races.......or work the program that PE race twice a week, but thats wishful thinking i suppose.
I love PE racing, but restraining other trainers will imo provide less punting opportunities and dwindle the pools in the long run
