Derek brugman wanted to have a punt

louisg wrote: This is another thread that shows a fair amount of bias and naivety.
1)Who are you to demand info ? Can't you read ? Can't you see when a horse shortens ?
2)You guys who came into racing yesterDAY have a lot to learn. The shrewdies of yesterYEAR never had TV, cellphones or computers. Yet they were putting more on a horse 40 years ago than you do today. Do the maths. They simply watched the betting.
3)All of a sudden, MR Beyleveld's opinion is akin to that of deity.
4)The fundamental difference between Owners and Punters is that Owners HAVE TO pay their keep and Punters DONT HAVE TO punt.
5)When anyone backs a horse, he/she doesn't think of or care about the next person. Punters don't stop and think " hey, shouldn't I wait for the Owner to get on?" But now we want the Owner to say , " I can't back my horse yet, because I haven't told the punters" or, as per this thread, " I had better let the Punters know that I intend backing my horse"
5)Watch the betting, ffs and don't worry about jockeys, who are not the best judges most of the time.

I am not an owner, only punt and I agree 100% with LG on this one. The owners fit the bill and when they have an opportunity to punt a quality horse to win its maiden, you just do it.

Mr Jooste is a man of integrity who has breathed new life into South African racing.

For Louis to suggest that he would condone the public being mislead, so his horses could be punted by a privileged few is shocking.

Louis - this is not your average owner. This is a man who puts racing first.

So Mr Goosen - Do you think Mr Jooste would want information about his runners being transparent to the public, or disguised for betting purposes ?

What an absolute load of bullshit, talk about a storm in a teacup! Get a hold of yourself people!

There was no secret about this horse being fancied, the horse was opened in the red! Before the jockey interview was shown on USO the presenters were saying how fancied the horse was. Give a thought to the jockey who gave enough info before the race, have any of you ever considered that he was asked not to? He could lose future rides if he was too bullish. We are talking about a mans livelihood here. How long have some of you been in the game?

Now lets talk about the race itself. Put up your hands if you think that won like a good thing?
NOW WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF THIS WAS PREACHED AND THE STABLE COMPANION GOT UP TO BEAT IT?
The same whiners would be on here bitching about people "pulling moves" of that I have no doubt. The post race interviews revealed that the horse is talented but has many issues. Did anyone think perhaps that was the reason for lack of confidence? Louisg is correct, connections are damned if they do, and damned if they dont.

My advice to the whiners is go to the casino or shut the f@#K up.

I hear what both sides are saying here and both have fair arguments but this particular situation does bug me. First and foremost I must say I am all for owners and trainers punting on their horses that they think will win as i do feel they deserve to and thats how they keep themselves going. The issue for me in this situation is that the bookies opened this market around 3 days before the race and the interview was aired 10min before the race. Captain Sam ran an absolutely awful race, was green and didn't jump on terms but still got up, there was no ways he was ever going to lose that race. I don't understand why DB just didn't lay his house on the horse before the interview was given and then let MJ tell the truth. My worry is that he told MJ to downplay the horse to try and drive up the price, that's the issue I think at hand here. I'm ok with secrecy, not giving interviews, punting on horses you own but if you downplay a horse to try drive the price up I have a serious issue.

My personal opinion is that MJ is not the sharpest tool in the shed and I could smell bullshit in his pre-race interview when he said he's hoping for a top 3 finish and the horse is trading around 1.4 on the tote, that is not a top 3 price, that is a 'get the horse to the line first or go work at Macdonalds rather than a jockey' price. The post-race interview was even more ridiculous and he flat out said he had to downplay the horse so DB could have a bet. To me thats trying to drive the price up, which it did on the tote from 1,4 before the interview aired to 2,1 and it closed at 1,9. If he laid his bet on the tote, I think it is very wrong no matter which way you look at it.

ota it seems you are another with 40 years times one years experience in the industry...try seeing the bigger picture if at all possible before you start telling people where to get off...nobody is moaning about mj bylevelds pre race comments but his post race comment is out of order...the industry must make up its mind once and for all whether it wants to go forward or continue to stagnate and adopt its archaic attitudes towards these issues...I ask again who is the owner of the horse mr and mrs jooste or Derek brugman?

Pirates the squealing is coming from punters who think that they were misled. With the utmost respect, I have been in this game for forty years and one thing I do know is that there are no certanties in racing. It irritates the hell out of me when punters come on and demand information they really have no right to. Where are they in the queue when the owner pays his bills? I concur 100% with Louisg sentiments.

You are correct in saying that the jockey should not have said what he did in the winning interview. Who owns the horse is of no significance in this scenario as I doubt Jooste needs the 10k available on a 1st timer claim. Brugman is the racing manager, see the inside info as a perk, much like insider trading on the Pepkor transactions.

That's the difference between old timer 40 yr punters and new generation punters that the operators are failing to attract,we wnt accept all this shit about them and us,either see us as valued customers who should be be given all info possible to avoid us thinking that racing is crooked or stick to the 40 yr long punter who wnt be around much longer

louisg wrote: As far as I know, nobody lied. Also, how many times do Telly track interview all connections ? Did they talk to Craig Mayhew on thursday at Vaal ? He fancied his horse at long odds !

I just want to know when it became mandatory for Owners to buy horses, pay years of keep and then take a reduction on the price due to being obligated to tell the public in advance when fancied?

Piere Strydom must be the biggest liar of all jocks, then, as he very seldom tips himself.... He cites the exposed form and the dangers.

And how many interviews give you punting confidence? How many outright winners are tipped ?

I am planning a betting coup quite soon. Please don't expect it to be broadcast on tellytrack. Watch the betting.....because, on the morning of the race, I will check temperature, leavings and will take a blood and run the PCV first.....

Horse in question from the Mayhew Yard - Last time was backed by the connections - Expected a great run - Ran down the drain 8/1 to 6/1 - Tears all round - Now runs Thursday the trainer expected a good run but nobody else did as the owners again cried as this time they sat on their hands and the horse went 20-1 to 40-1. Even if the press had asked Mayhew he would have said working well but I can't explain that last poor run. Very hard to make a good thing of a 40-1 BUT if you looked at her form you would notice that her grass runs were way better than sand and that she had a good record over the 1200m so the answer was there for us -

to the thread -

I know we are talking about a first timer here so no exposed form BUT as LG says the money(halved the sort odds of 22/10 down to evens so strong support at a short price) was down and the Jock did predict a top three finish. I understand punters need info and owners need prices and the solution is a happy medium and a press that gives us info from the stables which is a difficult job in itself as many trainers don't want to talk for various reasons(Some trainers are not trying to hide the truth but in the past have given info freely only to be BLASTED by the punters when the horse does not win, while others must look after the people that pay their wages who don't want the info out there)

Barrier trails might help for first timers and rested horses but for the rest form first and a better relationship between owners, press , trainers and punters. I know that it is decent to share your info as an owner AFTER you've got on BUT many owners only place their bets after the horse has gone down and at that stage it's too late for the press to relay the info.
Hard call to make as Racing survives only on punters and owners having a strike and both parties need to be appeased to keep the game going so to put one's need above the other is risky.

Over the Air wrote: Pirates the squealing is coming from punters who think that they were misled. With the utmost respect, I have been in this game for forty years and one thing I do know is that there are no certanties in racing. It irritates the hell out of me when punters come on and demand information they really have no right to. Where are they in the queue when the owner pays his bills? I concur 100% with Louisg sentiments.

You are correct in saying that the jockey should not have said what he did in the winning interview. Who owns the horse is of no significance in this scenario as I doubt Jooste needs the 10k available on a 1st timer claim. Brugman is the racing manager, see the inside info as a perk, much like insider trading on the Pepkor transactions.

Even though i agree with what you say,i have also been a punter for 40 years and do believe in transparancy,but,the jockeys,trainers and owners do not owe us anything.

With your 40 years of expierience you should know better than to tell all to fuck off,thats my only gripe about your post

Johnny this entitlement thing really gets to me and you are right I should not have said F$%k off.

Over the Air wrote: Johnny this entitlement thing really gets to me and you are right I should not have said F$%k off.

FFS NOBODY is asking for tips here

Just a little bloody honesty if you happen to be giving feedback on your horses in a public platform like TT , if thats too much to ask then simply say "no comment" . but to mislead so that you can get on , is a wee problem i would say.

in my opinion the game needs to sit up and take notice of what has been raised here, there are very valid points raised that need to be addressed in order to protect racing's reputation,, db is is the racing manager NOT the owner, i doubt if the actual owner of the horse even punts,, the guys asking the questions cant just be fobbed off, sure many punts go astray and anyone putting money on a horse takes a risk, but looking after your customer and accountability for actions of licensed people should be paramount, hopefully Bob could contact the NHRA and get the official viewpoint for the guys asking the questions,, remember most other racing countries operate a tote only eliminating these type of things, we are still lucky enough to enjoy bookmakers