Stiff Draw for Marinaresco

Bob Brogan wrote:

Frodo wrote:

Mac wrote: Me thinks Legal Eagle is a good horse. Marinaresco is better :whistle:

I'm also favoring Marinaresco - but it would have been great for racing if LE ran in the July; let's hope they meet in the Cape and then hopefully the Marinaresco connections will be brave enough to make the trip to Joh'burg

Would Abashiri not beat Marinaresco at levels? the form book says so

I doubt Abashiri would beat Black Arthur,Bela Bela or Its my turn so i give him no chance against Marinaresco.Abashiri beat a weak group of jhb 3yr horses (imo) to win his triple crown,but good on him for winning bcoz he could only beat the horses he faced.

Strictly on paper (using horses like Brazuca, Mac de Lago and Judicial) I put Marinaresco about 4 lengths behind Abashiri (ignoring his July effort) at level weights and also using Mac de Lago, Legal Eagle has about 4 lengths on Abashiri at level weights, so that sort of put things in perspective :ohmy:

So I'll have to retract my previous statement about favoring Marinaresco over Legal Eagle :blush:

And one has to sort of re-asses the relative strengths of last season's 3 yr olds - bar Abashiri, the best of them (Marinaresco) only beat Judicial by 1.25 lengths receiving 1.5 kgs - even taking into account that M could probably have won by maybe 3 lengths, that still does not look that great (good maybe, but not great).

The same Marinaresco was also beaten in the July at level weights by The Conglomerate - and I think most of us will agree that The Conglomerate wont' smell LE at level weights :dry:

Furthermore, the other 'stars' like Black Arthur and Bela Bela could not beat Saratoga Dancer (put up to 101) in the July. And I'm sure most will agree that Saratoga Dancer, although obviously a very decent horse, can't be mentioned in the same breath as Legal Eagle?

So only Abashiri comes out of this comparison with any glory - and even he is quite a few points too high at 117 imo

So for me I think the newly turned 4 year olds (bar Abashiri) will have an uphill task in the new season when they lose their WFA allowance against horses like Mac de Lago, Legal Eagle and even French Navy, who must have had some excuse in the July.

Preparing face for that yellow stuff

winzip wrote:

Bob Brogan wrote:

Frodo wrote:

Mac wrote: Me thinks Legal Eagle is a good horse. Marinaresco is better :whistle:

I'm also favoring Marinaresco - but it would have been great for racing if LE ran in the July; let's hope they meet in the Cape and then hopefully the Marinaresco connections will be brave enough to make the trip to Joh'burg

Would Abashiri not beat Marinaresco at levels? the form book says so

I doubt Abashiri would beat Black Arthur,Bela Bela or Its my turn so i give him no chance against Marinaresco.Abashiri beat a weak group of jhb 3yr horses (imo) to win his triple crown,but good on him for winning bcoz he could only beat the horses he faced.

At level weights an injured Abashiri beat them in the July

F, you can try and analyse it like you want I will go on record as saying all of the above horses will never smell Marinaresco again. There are not many horses of his age with a turn of foot like him when the button is pressed. Immidiate ! Besides he is still maturing. As per usual the JHB horses are merit rated to high in my opinion and the Natal season has proved that yet again. Excuses every year and this one no exception. He was very unlucky in the July and that having been his first run up there. (How many lengths would he have been better off had he been up in Natal like the other horses ?)
He will become our new champ if he stays sound of which I have no doubt.

He has the 'wow' factor no doubt - and if he keeps improving he will probably become the next Pocket Power - all I'm saying I don't think he is there yet

Will be interesting to find out what the plans are for Marinaresco and Abashiri :ohmy:

Candice said plans for Marinaresco are QP and Met.

We have had a very long list of horses emotively labelled "champions" (even world beaters ...lol),on this forum ,over the years!(most recently ,Nightingale,Silver Mountain for instance)
When the performances have been realistically assessed on ratings,(normally amongst equally emotive howls of protest),the ratings have,in almost every case ,been confirmed!!!
Marinaresco has a long way to go from a 105 to champion .....can't say he wont be ,but he's not there yet!(on Sunday he was 8 lengths inferior to Pocket Power)

(He may well be flattered in the Cape season as "home ground advantage" is traditionally very valuable in WC races!-his real opposition will probably be Black Arthur,unless Jhb horses move to Cape Town stabling, for the season)

Fair enough Rob, I havent labled any horse, (well except Marinaresco) I ask the question , in both his Natal races (Greyville tight course) did he have it his own way ? If no, how much better is he at this point in time than his rating ? How much improvement is to come from the others ? To me he has plenty of improvement to come, the others......?

rob faux wrote: We have had a very long list of horses emotively labelled "champions" (even world beaters ...lol),on this forum ,over the years!(most recently ,Nightingale,Silver Mountain for instance)
When the performances have been realistically assessed on ratings,(normally amongst equally emotive howls of protest),the ratings have,in almost every case ,been confirmed!!!
Marinaresco has a long way to go from a 105 to champion .....can't say he wont be ,but he's not there yet!(on Sunday he was 8 lengths inferior to Pocket Power)

(He may well be flattered in the Cape season as "home ground advantage" is traditionally very valuable in WC races!-his real opposition will probably be Black Arthur,unless Jhb horses move to Cape Town stabling, for the season)

They are all labelled champions when they are colts

neigh wrote: Fair enough Rob, I havent labled any horse, (well except Marinaresco) I ask the question , in both his Natal races (Greyville tight course) did he have it his own way ? If no, how much better is he at this point in time than his rating ? How much improvement is to come from the others ? To me he has plenty of improvement to come, the others......?

No question ,he is on the up and could be anything ...............we just often overrate them before they get there!

I agree with rob, no need to put the proverbial cart before the horse. He is solid but beating judicial is not star quality. Also I feel like the form of the July and champions cup was confirmed with Saratoga running equal distances behind marinaresco.

At this point in his career he ain't no pocket power, he may become one day but not at this minute.

I feel like the older horses are better at this stage.

i think what we need to do is compare marinesco at the end of his 3yo career compared to pocket power at the end of his 3yo career...pocket power had won the cape triple crown series against his own age group and marinesco has won the first two legs of the triple crown series, run second in the group one july and won the group one champions cup both times against older horses ...no contest at the end of their 3yo careers