Stiff Draw for Marinaresco

neigh wrote: Spot on Rob, but then there is a "fair" record over time. I still believe she should have run better than she did. :lol:[/quote

You just greedy , you bugger!!!! :blink:

Frodo wrote: He has the 'wow' factor no doubt - and if he keeps improving he will probably become the next Pocket Power - all I'm saying I don't think he is there yet

Will be interesting to find out what the plans are for Marinaresco and Abashiri :ohmy:

Did anyone actually look at the quality (lack of) in the Champions Cup? If someone can make a case that anything ran more than a 104/105 it would be worth studying.

Ratings are nothing more than beaten distances x weight given/received. They have held up for a long, long time. On all evidence (rather than (crystal balls)) Abashiri is the class act so far. Happily, these comments will be here 12 months from now and then we will know in hindsight rather than foreskin.

Heard early on about this one and watched his progress with anticipation hence adding him in my charity turf challenge entry. I have had the same debates as above with friends who have been in the game for a long time but sometimes you just get a feeling about a horse when you see him run. This one gives me goosebumps every time I see him run now.

He has been a different horse since gelding. Both jocks have said they have never felt that type of acceleration before on anything they have ridden. You have to put his runs into context. He was in touching distance of the best in the two features before the winter guineas. In the winter guineas he was at the back turning for home in his first run since gelding and hot the front in a matter of strides before idling in front. In the classic he was up with the pace and wide with Grant posing before the post with tons in hand just kidding him along.

The July was probably just one race to soon and a bad draw that cost him. Still frightening acceleration from where he was to beat all but one. The stable then said that he had improved since the July and started fave for the cup. He jumped well but the jock took him back and was lying about third last. If you watch carefully, the jock allows him to drop even further back before making his run out wide just before the straight to give him the space to use his acceleration into the right gap to get him past. May not have beaten much but it was the manner of the win that was impressive.

The comparison to Pocket Power comes from the stable and they should know. I remember people saying at the time that Pocket Power got lucky because the best had left our shores and he was not beating much. Marinaresco may not match PP for his record(not sure if any horse ever will) but his running style is impressive. Pocket Power was sluggish out the pens and always seemed to hit a flat spot before leaving the field for dead. One never felt comfortable during the race until near the end of the race that he had it in his pocket. With M it's just a matter of when they will press the button and he goes. I just hope I get to see him race in this manner many more times and a few more group ones in his pocket.

Just out of interest, the horse I rate as much has not been mentioned. Hoping to see Brazuca back and racing at his best....perhaps gelding...who knows.

For me arithmetic has no place in forecasting MR's for potential champions. Why not just forget about the facts and subjectively add another 10 to 20 pounds for the poetry Marinaresco breathed. My racing blood beats more when forecasting a champion comes to fruition. I think this is what keeps me/us returning to horseracing.

I believe Abashiri did not beat any quality horses on his way to the triple crown...
I don't know how good he is,but i'm willing to bet that the Jhb horses were not that good and flattered abashiri.I just hope they test him against class horses...then we will know if we can take the triple crown form seriously.

Its a pity that Kzn's premier track is so poor that the top gr1 horses didn't want to run in the champions cup, because that would have given us a better idea of how good Marinaresco is.All we can do now is speculate,guess and wait till the top gr1 horses face each other.
I hope it is on the kenilworth summer course because then i can go an watch,lol.

But Abashiri did win the July at the weights so you can feel assured if you want to ignore Highveld form. He proved he IS a good horse.

If ever there was a horse that never exited me, it was Abashiri
And blaming Karl Zechner for almost losing the final leg, did'nt help at all

For me, Marinaresco is the real deal

Mac, this to me is what racing is all about, PASSION for the amazing animal they are. The joy they provide us with when they give their all. The mere fact we are having this debate, with varying opinions, tells a story on its own. Great for racing. I remember as a kid my old man and his mates also comparing the great names of horses racing, as I hope my kids will do some day.
Rob, yes I hope one of those names bantered about some day was mine. :whistle:

Taking Brazuca as a linehorse in his last 3 starts (cape derby rating cannot be taken, got a pisspoor ride and should have walked it any other day)
My conclusion:

Abba on a fair track over 1600-2000 is proven a 115-117 , Marinaresco never ran better than a 110 .
Only horse in the country that have abba's measure over 1600-2000 is legal eagle but only between a 1-2L.

Legal Eagle is a relentless galloper (only a very strong headwind can beat him in queens plate , the Met will be much closer but he is a proven champion)
Abashiri have the best stride i have seen (since National Emblem in the 90's) , the best 3 yo currently over 1600-2000, how much improvement is their to come as a 4yo??? He was far from his best winning the sa derby and been injured in july.
Marinaresco have an amazing turn of foot , but what did he beat??? He will have to improve a few lenghs to challenge Abba at his best on a fair track like kenilworth(only fair if no headwind) and turffontein where the best horse normally wins. He not been tested against the real best and have the x-factor with his turn of foot so its not impossible to improve a few lenghs in future to get in the abba/LE league.

But until then Marinaresco is good but far from champion or best of his age

Some difference of opinion here, but both sides have merit imo.

Everyone seems to agree that Marinareso has the potential to run to better than he has currently achieved - but until he does, it remains 'potential' - the way he races it is entirely possible that he will more often than not have to weave his way through from the back, so chances are he will be baulked etc on some occasions

The point on which not everyone concurs, is how good Abashiri is - for me he did not actually 'win' the July at the weights - but he came close, and excuses have been forthcoming regarding him being 'disadvantaged' (to say the least) by the track condition. To rate him, I think we need to look at his run in the SA Classic; he did beat Brazuca by almost 4 lengths - and if one is not sure about whether Brazuca ran to his rating that day, one can also look at Suyoof as the line horse; using both Brazuca and Suyoof, it seems fair that Abashiri ran to about 113/114 that day.

So Abashiri has achieved that rating - Marinaresco has the potential to achieve it

Marinaresco is a MACHINE!! Neither Abashiri or Legal Eagle will come close to him! :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

Mr 110 about right ?