Stiff Draw for Marinaresco

pirates wrote: i think what we need to do is compare marinesco at the end of his 3yo career compared to pocket power at the end of his 3yo career...pocket power had won the cape triple crown series against his own age group and marinesco has won the first two legs of the triple crown series, run second in the group one july and won the group one champions cup both times against older horses ...no contest at the end of their 3yo careers

The point was made that he was better than pocket power, not better than him at this stage. When marinaresco wins 4 qp's and 3 Mets then we can compare.

Good luck to the owners and everyone else concerned but I'll get excited after the qp and met double is done this year (which I'm willing to lay odds will not happen btw).

Talk up here is the best in SA and will only improve and all going well better than Pocket Power.

Craig Eudey wrote: Talk up here is the best in SA and will only improve and all going well better than Pocket Power.

Fark me :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: .....So then is just a matter of time before he joins de kocks yard and goes trotting off into the sunset !!

Let's hope he turns out to be all that he promises and more, just look at the response he has created after winning his first Grade 1. The game needs superstars.

Magi wrote:

Craig Eudey wrote: Talk up here is the best in SA and will only improve and all going well better than Pocket Power.

Fark me :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: .....So then is just a matter of time before he joins de kocks yard and goes trotting off into the sunset !!

:woohoo: :lol: :lol: magi

bayern wrote: Let's hope he turns out to be all that he promises and more, just look at the response he has created after winning his first Grade 1. The game needs superstars.

I agree and i will be going to queens plate an met to see how good he is.I watched pocket power with the guv Jeff beat the grey Ramsden horse by sh.Little did i know what pocket would achieve after his first queens plate win.

pirates wrote: i think what we need to do is compare marinesco at the end of his 3yo career compared to pocket power at the end of his 3yo career...pocket power had won the cape triple crown series against his own age group and marinesco has won the first two legs of the triple crown series, run second in the group one july and won the group one champions cup both times against older horses ...no contest at the end of their 3yo careers

Pocket Power never came to Natal for the season,at the same stage of his career,so comparison is pointless ......but won the QP and Met double within 6-7 months
However, anybody who claims to do his own handicapping will know that Marinaresco ran to a 111 in the July if you very very generous, but much more likely a 108,and the Champions cup to a 105.........hardly up to champion status....yet!
(in fact ,not even the best 3 yr old in the land ,as it stands right now-you cant argue against Frodo's analysis)

All just of interest sake really ,as we will all punt in accordance with our own assessments when the races come about - to each his own,as they say!

^ see mate its all rosy handicapping horses based on how they finish but do they take into account the other factors in the race?

example - For marinaresco in the July, drawn terribly, first time at Greyville. stone last, flew for 2nd. taking into account all his rivals had track experience. as grant said, if he had a good draw, he wins with ease. So does your merit rating take this into account? I'm guessing not. Even in the champions cup, does the 105 rating take into account being boxed in? and we've got to remember the horse was never fully extended, Grant never used his whip. Add 3, 4 lengths to that. This is why merit ratings are flawed and in this horses case, he is still severely underrated on official ratings.

Only way to spot a really good horse is through the visual aspect. Time and time again this is why horses 'seemingly' shock us.

Rob as you said, if you do your own handicapping you have Marinaresco at 108=111, what do you have Abashiri on 117 ? Against his own age ? Against what ? Too high, against overated Gauteng what ? Where did they feature in Natal season, any of them ? Tracks or maybe overrated ? I dont want to sound facetious but handicapping doesnt come close to comparing these horses. (includes Pocket Power at this time in his career) Im therefore not disputing the accuracy of everyones handicapping systems with the info they have at their disposal now. Im saying you can analyse all you want his MR means nothing to me for what I see for the future of Marinaresco.
The true handicapping will be revealed more accurately after the Cape season for the 3 year olds (last season) and Marinaresco will be the highest rated horse in SA come Feb 2017. Im taking into consideration all that has transpired in the last 3 months. Injuries, cobalt, results and future potential. No horse comes close to him IMHO but it has nothing to do with accurate/inaccurate handicapping now but what this blind bat knows (and been told) and has seen.

I am not so sure about M winning the QP but will without a doubt be rooting for him
The Met however,i think is at his mercy
He may never win a QP but i believe he will beat anything in the land from 1800 to 2400
A real superstar

neigh wrote: Rob as you said, if you do your own handicapping you have Marinaresco at 108=111, what do you have Abashiri on 117 ? Against his own age ? Against what ? Too high, against overated Gauteng what ? Where did they feature in Natal season, any of them ? Tracks or maybe overrated ? I dont want to sound facetious but handicapping doesnt come close to comparing these horses. (includes Pocket Power at this time in his career) Im therefore not disputing the accuracy of everyones handicapping systems with the info they have at their disposal now. Im saying you can analyse all you want his MR means nothing to me for what I see for the future of Marinaresco.
The true handicapping will be revealed more accurately after the Cape season for the 3 year olds (last season) and Marinaresco will be the highest rated horse in SA come Feb 2017. Im taking into consideration all that has transpired in the last 3 months. Injuries, cobalt, results and future potential. No horse comes close to him IMHO but it has nothing to do with accurate/inaccurate handicapping now but what this blind bat knows (and been told) and has seen.

Neigh, ratings are not an exact science and are only what has been achieved to date, but for me when the word was out about Silver Mountain , st tropez , nightingale , Potala Palace etc etc following what they achieved was far more accurate than what was being said!!! But we will all back our own opinions and statistically ratings have been most accurate for me-I try to avoid getting too emotional about performances ...I just measure them.
The problem is that this season was ,IMO very weak and that can give very false perceptions - but if it turns out he is a champion,that will be fantastic for Candice,and I will be tracking improvement closely so as not to be left behind if he is as good as they say!
(Your own filly is a great example .....she didn't win every time you wanted her to, only when she was rated to )

Spot on Rob, but then there is a "fair" record over time. I still believe she should have run better than she did. :lol: