so wheres the sectional timing ?????????
- Bob Brogan
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Re: so wheres the sectional timing ?????????
8 years 5 months agoPlease Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- heinrich
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Re: so wheres the sectional timing ?????????
8 years 5 months ago
Yeah Bob...as I said before,they are simply brilliant at what they do.
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- Warren Laird
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Re: so wheres the sectional timing ?????????
8 years 5 months ago
I agree Yesterday I went onto the Hong Kong Jockey Club website .
Unbelievable, everything is there , it was actually mind blowing .
Way ahead of the game. If that is 1st world we must be in 10th world of darkest Africa at the moment and very close to Zim and Kenya . I wonder if a company did a thesis on information in horse racing in all countries in the world , where would SA be Ranked I doubt top 10 .
Their model of how racing is run should be used on SA , but that is never going to happen. With these clowns . Actually embarrassing when we produce some of the Brightest Students in the world, especially in IT.
Unbelievable, everything is there , it was actually mind blowing .
Way ahead of the game. If that is 1st world we must be in 10th world of darkest Africa at the moment and very close to Zim and Kenya . I wonder if a company did a thesis on information in horse racing in all countries in the world , where would SA be Ranked I doubt top 10 .
Their model of how racing is run should be used on SA , but that is never going to happen. With these clowns . Actually embarrassing when we produce some of the Brightest Students in the world, especially in IT.
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- neigh
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Re: so wheres the sectional timing ?????????
8 years 5 months ago
Never met an IT horse before, well not a bright one anyway.........

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- Bob Brogan
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Re: so wheres the sectional timing ?????????
8 years 5 months ago
Seemingly the new saddle cloths have been ordered and were in use at the weekend in the Western Cape
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- rob faux
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Re: so wheres the sectional timing ?????????
8 years 5 months agoBob Brogan wrote: Seemingly the new saddle cloths have been ordered and were in use at the weekend in the Western Cape
Oh good ,we shouldn't be more than about 3 years away now.....lol

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- fafi
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Re: so wheres the sectional timing ?????????
8 years 5 months ago
They were tested for three races at Greyville two weeks ago and they giving it two months to be in place
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- neigh
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Re: so wheres the sectional timing ?????????
8 years 5 months ago
Are those two months for them to put the saddle cloths in place or to find out where they go ?
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- rob faux
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Re: so wheres the sectional timing ?????????
8 years 5 months ago - 8 years 5 months ago
They were giving it 2 months to be in place in APRIL,2014 !!!!
Cant count on promises any more ....lets hope this time it happens!
Cant count on promises any more ....lets hope this time it happens!
Last edit: 8 years 5 months ago by rob faux.
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- heinrich
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Re: so wheres the sectional timing ?????????
8 years 3 months ago
I saw 1 horse's timing device fell out the other day at turffies.Or so the commentator said. Was wondering why can't they make 'those' times available...even thou its just tests they running..
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- Pirhobeta
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- Warren Laird
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Re: so wheres the sectional timing ?????????
8 years 2 months ago
I am getting tired so I want to put this out to show that we fight the system everyday. The author has been undisclosed for obvuios reason but the message remains the same "-
A. Dear Mr Barends and Mr Hyde on 1 August 2016 I addressed an email to you regarding, inter alia, sectional timing. I set out below a copy of the extract dealing with this issue.
“SECTIONAL TIMING
1. I have been informed sectional timing tests are being undertaken at the Vaal racecourse by the Racing Association which places electronic devices in the saddle cloth of each horse. The following is relevant:-
a. the RA is not an operator and is not a member of the NHA. The RA should be treated as another organisation or person.
b. not every owner is informed or aware that:-
i. his/her horse is being used for commercial means by the RA and that the owner benefits nothing from it.
ii. He/she is entitled to object to the use of electronic devices in the saddle cloth of a horse which he/she owns and for which the RA will eventually benefit to the exclusion of the owner.
c. the racing public has not been informed of the sectional timing tests.
d. The stipes have failed to report to the public that saddlecloths contained electronic devices. See rule 59.3
e. In terms of the rules, the electronic device is not a part of the saddlecloth and that jockeys are not being weighed with it before and after the race.
f. The racing public has not been informed of the sectional timing results. Explanations should be given why the results have not be made known. As an owner, I should be entitled to know the results of the tests if my horse was involved. Currently, this gives the directors and employees of the RA an unfair advantage over anyone else for future races and betting purposes.
g. The stipes reports need to to make full disclosure to all parties regarding the system employed.
2. I have been reliably informed that when sectional timing is being undertaken by the RA, there are at least 2 RA contractors who are present tin the Jockeys quarters which is in direct conflict with rule 56.2.1.
3. It is about time that the NHA does its job and does it properly. “
B. It is now nearly 8 months since my email and it appears that the NHA has done little to nothing to regulate sectional timing. I am not sure whether you are aware that what has been going on is a clear contravention of the rules. See below.
1) Rule 68.2.13 provides that the following is a groundsfor an objection, namely that an electric, electronic, galvanic or mechanical apparatus, or equipment prohibited in terms of the rules, was used, directly or indirectly, on or in relation to a horse in the race.
2) Rule 72.1.14 makes it an offence for any person that use or be party to the use of any electric, electronic, mechanical or galvanic apparatus or equipment, directly or indirectly, on or in relation to any horse, which may adversely impact or affect the welfare of the horse.
C. Despite the above rules, the NHA has allowed sectional timing tests to take place. Nothing has been done by the NHA to stop the breaches of the rules and/or to ensure the integrity of the information and that no-one obtains an unfair advantage.
‘
D. Regulation on this aspect appears non-existent.
E. Yesterday I posted on Sporting post some issues raised in a meeting of the Industry Liaison Committee. One aspect was what Larry Wainstein had to say, namely that :-
“3.2 RACING ASSOCIATION
Sectional Timing
Mr Wainstein said that a lot of data had been captured at the Vaal, Turffontein and Kimberley. A few problems had been experienced, mainly with the Velcro on the saddle cloths but these were being sorted out would be up and running perfectly within a week. Only minor teething problems were still being dealt with. Mr Basel supported these comments.
The Chairman said that he would be meeting with publishing regarding the use of the data and how it should be disseminated. NHA will also be involved in discussions.
The Chairman confirmed that the jockeys are being informed when testing is taking place. In response to a question, he said that Equimotion manage the running of sectional timing.” (bold my emphasis)
F. After my comments a poster called Gavs stated the following:-
“This sectional timing problem needs to be addressed immediately by the NHRA. LW and his benefactors are using electronic information only available to them to obtain an unfair advantage. It should be information available to all of us.
The NHRA rules are supposed to prevent cheating and prevent anyone from obtaining an unfair advantage.
This bs with sectional timing has to be stopped. From the minutes it looks like the NHRA is merrily dancing and holding hands with the RA as if the RA as a big sister will solve all the problems.
We the people are entitled to have the same information as LW and his cronies. We the people keep horseracing alive. We the people demand. That the NHRA does its job. We the people demand that the NHRA investigate the bets of LW and the sectional timing reports. Check the Whatsapp and SMS mesages. The proof is out there.” (bold and underlining is my emphasis)
G. Are any of the comments above true? Why is the NHA allowing sectional timing to take place without having altered its rules and notifying owners that their horses are being used to allow other such as the RA to make money?
H. The majority I have read regarding sectional timing has been disturbing to me. What has the NHA done? Has the NHAt done anything? The NHA is being invited to meetings and that is about it. The NHA needs to regulate. The sectional timing information etc etc (i.e. intellectual property) must belong to no-one but the horse racing industry. Owners horses are being used without specific consent and at times without owners knowledge (i.e. property of owners) and if owner’s cannot benefit from the sectional timing then no other entity should. It must be made available to everyone for free.
I. In order to ensure that I get your attention, you are hereby notified that I hereby OBJECT and continue to object in anticipation of future races - in terms of rule 68.2.13 - to any horse running in any race with sectional timing equipment. This objection notice is furnished to the NHA as the controlling body of the Clerk of the Scales and/or the Chief Stipendiary Steward of the SB prior to any ALL CLEAR being announced in terms of RULE 66.3.3. You are requested to notify the relevant persons verbally and this notification is to be regarded also as confirmation of the objection. I tender to pay the prescribed fee and request that you furnish me with the amount to be prescribed so that I can make certain payments in advance. I remind you that rule 69.6 states that “When an OBJECTION lodged in terms of RULES 68.2.10, 68.2.13 to 68.2.16or 68.3 is upheld, the HORSE concerned shall be disqualified from the RACE and the remainder of the HORSES shall be placed relative to the original placings declared by the judge”. Hopefully this will spur you into doing your jobs and looking after everyone’s interests and not only those of the RA.
J. I look forward to hearing from you in all respects.
A. Dear Mr Barends and Mr Hyde on 1 August 2016 I addressed an email to you regarding, inter alia, sectional timing. I set out below a copy of the extract dealing with this issue.
“SECTIONAL TIMING
1. I have been informed sectional timing tests are being undertaken at the Vaal racecourse by the Racing Association which places electronic devices in the saddle cloth of each horse. The following is relevant:-
a. the RA is not an operator and is not a member of the NHA. The RA should be treated as another organisation or person.
b. not every owner is informed or aware that:-
i. his/her horse is being used for commercial means by the RA and that the owner benefits nothing from it.
ii. He/she is entitled to object to the use of electronic devices in the saddle cloth of a horse which he/she owns and for which the RA will eventually benefit to the exclusion of the owner.
c. the racing public has not been informed of the sectional timing tests.
d. The stipes have failed to report to the public that saddlecloths contained electronic devices. See rule 59.3
e. In terms of the rules, the electronic device is not a part of the saddlecloth and that jockeys are not being weighed with it before and after the race.
f. The racing public has not been informed of the sectional timing results. Explanations should be given why the results have not be made known. As an owner, I should be entitled to know the results of the tests if my horse was involved. Currently, this gives the directors and employees of the RA an unfair advantage over anyone else for future races and betting purposes.
g. The stipes reports need to to make full disclosure to all parties regarding the system employed.
2. I have been reliably informed that when sectional timing is being undertaken by the RA, there are at least 2 RA contractors who are present tin the Jockeys quarters which is in direct conflict with rule 56.2.1.
3. It is about time that the NHA does its job and does it properly. “
B. It is now nearly 8 months since my email and it appears that the NHA has done little to nothing to regulate sectional timing. I am not sure whether you are aware that what has been going on is a clear contravention of the rules. See below.
1) Rule 68.2.13 provides that the following is a groundsfor an objection, namely that an electric, electronic, galvanic or mechanical apparatus, or equipment prohibited in terms of the rules, was used, directly or indirectly, on or in relation to a horse in the race.
2) Rule 72.1.14 makes it an offence for any person that use or be party to the use of any electric, electronic, mechanical or galvanic apparatus or equipment, directly or indirectly, on or in relation to any horse, which may adversely impact or affect the welfare of the horse.
C. Despite the above rules, the NHA has allowed sectional timing tests to take place. Nothing has been done by the NHA to stop the breaches of the rules and/or to ensure the integrity of the information and that no-one obtains an unfair advantage.
‘
D. Regulation on this aspect appears non-existent.
E. Yesterday I posted on Sporting post some issues raised in a meeting of the Industry Liaison Committee. One aspect was what Larry Wainstein had to say, namely that :-
“3.2 RACING ASSOCIATION
Sectional Timing
Mr Wainstein said that a lot of data had been captured at the Vaal, Turffontein and Kimberley. A few problems had been experienced, mainly with the Velcro on the saddle cloths but these were being sorted out would be up and running perfectly within a week. Only minor teething problems were still being dealt with. Mr Basel supported these comments.
The Chairman said that he would be meeting with publishing regarding the use of the data and how it should be disseminated. NHA will also be involved in discussions.
The Chairman confirmed that the jockeys are being informed when testing is taking place. In response to a question, he said that Equimotion manage the running of sectional timing.” (bold my emphasis)
F. After my comments a poster called Gavs stated the following:-
“This sectional timing problem needs to be addressed immediately by the NHRA. LW and his benefactors are using electronic information only available to them to obtain an unfair advantage. It should be information available to all of us.
The NHRA rules are supposed to prevent cheating and prevent anyone from obtaining an unfair advantage.
This bs with sectional timing has to be stopped. From the minutes it looks like the NHRA is merrily dancing and holding hands with the RA as if the RA as a big sister will solve all the problems.
We the people are entitled to have the same information as LW and his cronies. We the people keep horseracing alive. We the people demand. That the NHRA does its job. We the people demand that the NHRA investigate the bets of LW and the sectional timing reports. Check the Whatsapp and SMS mesages. The proof is out there.” (bold and underlining is my emphasis)
G. Are any of the comments above true? Why is the NHA allowing sectional timing to take place without having altered its rules and notifying owners that their horses are being used to allow other such as the RA to make money?
H. The majority I have read regarding sectional timing has been disturbing to me. What has the NHA done? Has the NHAt done anything? The NHA is being invited to meetings and that is about it. The NHA needs to regulate. The sectional timing information etc etc (i.e. intellectual property) must belong to no-one but the horse racing industry. Owners horses are being used without specific consent and at times without owners knowledge (i.e. property of owners) and if owner’s cannot benefit from the sectional timing then no other entity should. It must be made available to everyone for free.
I. In order to ensure that I get your attention, you are hereby notified that I hereby OBJECT and continue to object in anticipation of future races - in terms of rule 68.2.13 - to any horse running in any race with sectional timing equipment. This objection notice is furnished to the NHA as the controlling body of the Clerk of the Scales and/or the Chief Stipendiary Steward of the SB prior to any ALL CLEAR being announced in terms of RULE 66.3.3. You are requested to notify the relevant persons verbally and this notification is to be regarded also as confirmation of the objection. I tender to pay the prescribed fee and request that you furnish me with the amount to be prescribed so that I can make certain payments in advance. I remind you that rule 69.6 states that “When an OBJECTION lodged in terms of RULES 68.2.10, 68.2.13 to 68.2.16or 68.3 is upheld, the HORSE concerned shall be disqualified from the RACE and the remainder of the HORSES shall be placed relative to the original placings declared by the judge”. Hopefully this will spur you into doing your jobs and looking after everyone’s interests and not only those of the RA.
J. I look forward to hearing from you in all respects.
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