louisg tell the nha they are clue less

Louis

that is a different debate......In the USA for example the programmers write races according to the horses around at the time. In sa the "programme" is designed/written months in advance.
so a quick simple example. If the handicappers visit the Vaal and there are 200 horses rated between 60 and 70 and needing a distance of 1200m to 1400m then the programme should change accordingly and CATER for these horses..

its no use a 2000m race with 10 horses running and the 1400m race is oversubsribed and horses dont run.

OH, more help for your guessing game Harry.....

The OFFICIAL ratings of juveniles were already published. We had received them Harry. Then a few days later, AFTER having declared that juveniles were not getting the extra 6 points, they then added the 6 to all and sundry that had raced in open company. No notice, they just did it.

And that's "the Trainer fault" ?

Yeah, right Harry....but, you know, keep trying harry, keep trying.

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

Mark Twain

If I am reading this correctly. All systems are not fool proof and there will be loop-holes for trainers to take advantage of. How does this affect the handicapper and his job to make it fair if the playing fields are not level ?

Flash Harry Wrote:

---

> It is better to keep your mouth closed and let
> people think you are a fool than to open it and
> remove all doubt.
>
> Mark Twain


But was he a member of the RA ?

hibernia Wrote:

---

> Flash Harry Wrote:
>

---

>

---

> > It is better to keep your mouth closed and let
> > people think you are a fool than to open it and
> > remove all doubt.
> >
> > Mark Twain
>
>
> But was he a member of the RA ?


I believe they asked him to resign - won't let anyone steal their thunder

It is interesting that horseracing is theoretically a huge industry and yet a trainer launches a fairly controversial attack on the regulatory body, and it has not attracted a single comment in a very popular racing publication..............sadly that says very few even understand and even less care........is that not significant?
In fact all that has happened is we have same relatively small sample of persons(minute in the context) saying the same old thing on our forum.
I have to say that just repeating ourselves is starting to become quite boring IMO, which is why I have started taking up my concerns directly with the relevant areas of the industry.
Maybe it is time to try (where we can agree) to do the same as a group!

1) It's not my lack of understanding of the system that is in question here, but the system itself and thereafter the application of it.... unless , of course, you can show me where I place my horses badly.
2)What utter crap is sometimes spoken when all facts and indeed, circumstances are not considered. You have a go at Coenie de Beer for running 4th, out at the weights. That's fine, but please show me other races for this 5 yo Mare, that he could have run in, off her rating. How many more times should she have been eliminated and been stuck in her stable ?
3)Please tell me what the parameter changes were last year in March, then the changes we made to them ? ( Yes, Harry, stupid me who doesn't "know the system" was part of that committee. A year and a half of allowing them more freedom, wider parameters, they have gone from bad to crisis.
4)Irrespective of what "the system that I don't understand" says, please confirm your expertise even further and justify to me that a horse that could not win on sand after two attempts, now gets to carry an extra 3kg on sand,just because of its Turf win. This whilst a horse gets 11kg penalty for a weak 4th on the sand, but has her turf rating STAY THE SAME. The system is wrong, unfair and poorly applied.

1. do you think these horse is well place? maybe i am stupid but these dont look like well place to me. to me these is a turf horse no sand horse but she run in all the big race when she no in that division. is my opinion who now why you waste time may be is the dificult owner i say only what i see. i

NEGEV
Age: 4 (at last run)
Sex: f
M/Rating: 94 (at last run)
Owner: Messrs C M Comaroff & B K Parker
Breeder: Summerhill Stud (Pty) Ltd
Trainer: Louis Goosen
Breeding: Stronghold (GB) - Haifaa (IRE) by Doyoun (IRE)
Colours: Cerise, white star, cerise sleeves and cap
Date of last run: 2013-09-28
Next race: 2013-10-17 at Vaal
Race Date Track Dist MR Wght AIBI Dr Fi W/D Winner/*2nd Jockey Time OP SP Condition Race
2012-07-19 Vaal 1000 ? 58.0 A 7 2 3.00 EXTRA ZING Chase Maujean 58.60 7/1 75/20 Good R75K- MAIDEN JUVENILE PLATE (Fillies) 2yolds
2012-08-11 Turffontein 1400 ? 57.0 A 12 1 -3.25 *CONSERVATIONIST Piere Strydom 87.19 5/1 19/10F Good Standside: R75K- MAIDEN PLATE (F and M)
2012-09-22 Vaal 1000 83 54.0 A 5 8 7.50 ROOI NOOI Chase Maujean 60.67 12/1 7/1 Good Sand: R125K- SOPHOMORE FILLIES (N B T) 3yolds
2012-10-16 Turffontein 1160 83 52.5 A 8 4 4.25 TINCHY STRYDER Deon Sampson 68.16 20/1 20/1 Very Soft Standside: R89K- PROGRESS PLATE 1, 2 and 3 time winners
2012-11-03 Turffontein 1400 83 55.5 A 14 2 0.10 ROCK OF ARTS (AUS) Piere Strydom 85.44 7/1 7/1F Good Standside: R2.5M- EMPERORS PALACE RTR CUP For 3 year-olds
2012-12-01 Turffontein 1600 83 58.0 A 6 3 3.00 CHERRY ON THE TOP Piere Strydom 96.74 7/1 75/20 Good Standside: R275K- FILLIES MILE (Grade 3) 3yolds
2013-02-19 Vaal 1400 90 60.0 A 4 2 1.25 ORATOR'S DAUGHTER (AUS) Piere Strydom 82.04 6/10 6/10F Good R84K- NOVICE PLATE (FM) Maidens and 1 time winners
2013-03-02 Turffontein 1600 90 58.0 A B 10 6 8.00 CHERRY ON THE TOP Piere Strydom 97.90 16/1 16/1 Good Standside: R500K- WILGERBOSDRIFT GAUTENG FILLIES GUINEAS (Grade 2)
2013-03-30 Turffontein 1800 90 58.0 A 12 12 21.00 CHERRY ON THE TOP Piere Strydom 115.19 20/1 50/1 Very Soft Standside: R1M- S A FILLIES CLASSIC (Grade 1) 3yolds (2nd Leg TT)
2013-06-08 Clairwood Park 1450 89 58.5 A 4 9 3.20 LOUVRE Menno Malherbe 87.87 36/1 110/1 Good Clairwood: R250K- TIBOUCHINA STAKES (Grade 2) Weight For Age (F and M)
2013-06-30 Clairwood Park 1600 89 50.0 A 11 8 4.40 GITIANO Menno Malherbe 98.58 18/1 36/1 Slightly Soft Clairwood: R1M- MILE (N-B T) KZN bred 3 & 4 yolds
2013-07-13 Clairwood Park 1200 89 56.0 A 9 4 1.35 JACKODORE Stuart Randolph 70.56 10/1 12/1 Very Soft Clairwood: R115K-PINNACLE STAKES (F and M)
2013-07-27 Greyville 1400 89 56.5 A C 2 5 3.80 REFLECTIVE IMAGE Stuart Randolph 84.27 7/2 3/1 Good R110K- FM 94 HANDICAP
2013-08-29 Vaal 1200 94 57.0 A 4 1 -2.00 *TZIGANE Piere Strydom 71.37 21/20 19/20F R86K- GRADUATION PLATE (F and M)
2013-09-28 Vaal 1200 94 65.0 A 2 3 6.00 SOLS GOLD Piere Strydom 73.45 18/10 22/10F Good Sand: R94K- FM 84 HANDICAP


2. i have no go at coenie i say if you enter a mr58 in a listed race and you run just behind the 95 then the handicapper must do hes job. coenie is get favour with increase mr for these horse no? now he can run and no get eliminated? or may be the question is why are we having mr58 run in joburg? is the feel that be cause the horse is 58 it cant get a hefty in crease? these is silly and to me show if you under stand the system then you are just acting like a fool in argue the penalty. go read the rule in place be fore she is entered into race.

3. may be the question is why after the year and the half your input is no make the changes you so clearly want?

4. so now be cause the horse has no run the required 3 run on the surface THIS IS A CLEAR NHRA RULE FOR EVERY ONE the handicapper must ignore the rule he work under? these is the non sense. i no say it is fair i say it is correct under the rules. i refer to my answer in 3 may be the problem is no the application of the rules is the problem with the rule them selves....

louis one thing in life re. be cause you have the opinion is no the garentee is the right opinion and my opinion is also no garentee is right. for me you can be cross scream and shout and insult flash but the truth remain that some trainer is much better plan horse career than other. you cant compare to woodruff and tarry and kannemeyer to name but the few top stables that perfect the plan of top horse career

Graig i had a horse bout six years ago ran a measly 5th got bumped 11points wasnt even a pound under sufferance.the line horse finished behind my horse vet report line horse coughing the end result was owner sold the horse never renewed his colours from owning 16 horses down 2naught didnt bother them the least

why is the industry in dire straits if sales prices are up and trainers are queing up to get boxes?

harry hotspur Wrote:

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> why is the industry in dire straits if sales
> prices are up and trainers are queing up to get
> boxes?


Fair comment

.....ignorance is bliss....and pipe dreams are a dime a dozen.....never seen an industry survive built on the cloud 9 principal.....something has got to give..... yet those in denial will always think that they will have a chair when the music stops playing.....: