louisg tell the nha they are clue less

clearly its easy to beat the system legally.....and to prolong a horse's career and get the maximum out of a horse before he gets handicapped out of the weights or his ability rating.....if you take a short cut then you must be prepated to take the beating.
i dont have a personal go at anybody specific but its clear some trainers are too stupid to place their horses correctly in races ....why not making sure you get the correct rating on the surface (sand/turf) the horse are poor on.??????? if you had 2 decent runs on sand and you know for a fact its the least prefered surface for the horse, why do you go and win on the turf (where the horse have more ability ) and you know that this going to cause the sand rating also to increase??????
now the horse is over rated on sand and well handicapped on turf..... Why did you not giving the horse one more sand run to get a fixed MR and then go and win on turf where the horse have more ability and very well handicapped.
just your own fault...not the system....dont cry if you cannot plan or having a go at the wrong races......
the snaiths annialate the system last season legally....they knew the pe horses are overrated on MR and the snaiths went and won a lot of races with average handicappers from capetown raiding.
want to know how to beat the system and get the most out of a horse and prolong his career? easy.......pm me and i will help you with advise or just catch a wake up .....if you already fucked up a horse's rating then sorry for your loss...its not the system its the stupid fool who nominated and ran him in the wrong races because of greed or trying to take shortcuts.....

great example of stupidity was the potala palace race .....why entering a very well handicapped horse in a race against top division horses that is overrated.....you have a good chance of running in the money but also know that you must accept the penalty .... the trainer cost the big penalised horse after that race at least 2 wins in future..

Zietsman Oosthuizen Wrote:

---

> clearly its easy to beat the system
> legally.....and to prolong a horse's career and
> get the maximum out of a horse before he gets
> handicapped out of the weights or his ability
> rating.....if you take a short cut then you must
> be prepated to take the beating.
> i dont have a personal go at anybody specific but
> its clear some trainers are too stupid to place
> their horses correctly in races ....why not making
> sure you get the correct rating on the surface
> (sand/turf) the horse are poor on.??????? if you
> had 2 decent runs on sand and you know for a fact
> its the least prefered surface for the horse, why
> do you go and win on the turf (where the horse
> have more ability ) and you know that this going
> to cause the sand rating also to increase??????
> now the horse is over rated on sand and well
> handicapped on turf..... Why did you not giving
> the horse one more sand run to get a fixed MR and
> then go and win on turf where the horse have more
> ability and very well handicapped.
> just your own fault...not the system....dont cry
> if you cannot plan or having a go at the wrong
> races......
> the snaiths annialate the system last season
> legally....they knew the pe horses are overrated
> on MR and the snaiths went and won a lot of races
> with average handicappers from capetown raiding.
> want to know how to beat the system and get the
> most out of a horse and prolong his career?
> easy.......pm me and i will help you with advise
> or just catch a wake up .....if you already @#$%&
> up a horse's rating then sorry for your loss...its
> not the system its the stupid fool who nominated
> and ran him in the wrong races because of greed or
> trying to take shortcuts.....
>
> great example of stupidity was the potala palace
> race .....why entering a very well handicapped
> horse in a race against top division horses that
> is overrated.....you have a good chance of running
> in the money but also know that you must accept
> the penalty .... the trainer cost the big
> penalised horse after that race at least 2 wins in
> future..

So what happens when the owner says i want to run in that race or i`m coming racing in 3 weeks time get me on the card?

well say ziets i agree with you 100% please help louis he need it <

then its up to the trainer to explain the consequences to the owner on what the outcome can be and how the outcome will effect the horse short term and long term career ....some trainers only try to satisfy their owners short term and the owner is the fool after the horse is outhandicapped and the owner still need to pay the bills and trainer normally say its the handicapper that fucked them over.....if you put a 3yo that just won a maiden agaist a decent top division horse and he run close up or in the places you fucked up a few wins in handicaps for the young horse......go through the divisions and take on the top horses when you have your few wins through the handicaps....

Zietsman Oosthuizen Wrote:

---

> then its up to the trainer to explain the
> consequences to the owner on what the outcome can
> be and how the outcome will effect the horse
> short term and long term career ....some trainers
> only try to satisfy their owners short term and
> the owner is the fool after the horse is
> outhandicapped and the owner still need to pay the
> bills and trainer normally say its the handicapper
> that @#$%& them over.....if you put a 3yo that
> just won a maiden agaist a decent top division
> horse and he run close up or in the places you
> @#$%& up a few wins in handicaps for the young
> horse......go through the divisions and take on
> the top horses when you have your few wins through
> the handicaps....


And what about a horse like Tribal Dance,how would you recommend how that horses program was set out? will the connections ever recover the big out lay?

Why is there a natural assumption that a "pure" handicapping system is the best for the local industry?
The RF system allowed a) better horses to win more races, b) no incentive to manipulate form c) not subjective in application,and d) horses that have achieved to their ability retire gracefully and make way for a new generation.
How bad is that really...............socialism hasn't worked so well for humanity, why should it be right for horses?
The argument that it is a requirement for international recognition is nonsense........America has no official ratings and it does not preclude them from racing internationally

rob these mr is all about the top horse race over sees. is less than 0.1% of our horse. i agree for me the race figure system is much better.

all know that i rate tribal a very good top division horse.....the problem rheir is that they never went for the july as a 3yo and prefered to take on a july with 2 hasbeens ....trainer fucked up bigtime....the next fuckups came with his rwgular jock that in my opinion are a overrated malakka that cost that horse and owners a lot of income .....tribal dance needs ro sit very handy and have a very long kick ......the fools normally tries from off the pace .....
he got his rating when winning a 300k race before the july that year and when showed his still underrated when running close up to jackson beach beaty and pomodoro in the J&B.....if it was my horse i would move it to the snaiths in capetown season and again to tarry/luchelle kruger in gauteng season. Still think he have a grade 1 win in him but not with his current trainer and never with the malakka that rides him and fuck up so often

Flash Harry Wrote:

---

> rob these mr is all about the top horse race over
> sees. is less than 0.1% of our horse. i agree for
> me the race figure system is much better.


We can ask the "conference " to rate those horses before they go................we have let them dictate the rating of all our horses now, anyway!..........<

rob faux Wrote:

---

> Why is there a natural assumption that a "pure"
> handicapping system is the best for the local
> industry?
> The RF system allowed a) better horses to win more
> races, b) no incentive to manipulate form c) not
> subjective in application,and d) horses that have
> achieved to their ability retire gracefully and
> make way for a new generation.
> How bad is that really...............socialism
> hasn't worked so well for humanity, why should it
> be right for horses?
> The argument that it is a requirement for
> international recognition is
> nonsense........America has no official ratings
> and it does not preclude them from racing
> internationally


Can't agree with you on all the advantages of the RF system - to me penalising every winner with 6 points is almost the same as the decision to increase every (turf') horse's MR by 6 points - with Race Figures you could never have a proper handicap race; the ideal imo is to have MR applied as correctly as humanly possible for the purposes of handicap racing and to have sufficient 'plated' races for the 'better' horses.

I do however agree that the international recognition idea is hogwash

Rob "America has no official ratings" if you know this for a fact then how do they conduct handicaps?

Zietsman how will a poor surface rating help a horse running on a different surface?

Frodo Wrote:

---

> rob faux Wrote:
>

---

>

---

> > Why is there a natural assumption that a "pure"
> > handicapping system is the best for the local
> > industry?
> > The RF system allowed a) better horses to win
> more
> > races, b) no incentive to manipulate form c)
> not
> > subjective in application,and d) horses that
> have
> > achieved to their ability retire gracefully and
> > make way for a new generation.
> > How bad is that really...............socialism
> > hasn't worked so well for humanity, why should
> it
> > be right for horses?
> > The argument that it is a requirement for
> > international recognition is
> > nonsense........America has no official ratings
> > and it does not preclude them from racing
> > internationally
>
>
> Can't agree with you on all the advantages of the
> RF system - to me penalising every winner with 6
> points is almost the same as the decision to
> increase every (turf') horse's MR by 6 points -
> with Race Figures you could never have a proper
> handicap race; the ideal imo is to have MR applied
> as correctly as humanly possible for the purposes
> of handicap racing and to have sufficient 'plated'
> races for the 'better' horses.
>
> I do however agree that the international
> recognition idea is hogwash


Frodo, what most people don't appreciate is that there was a discretionary factor built into the RF system, but I am not aware of it ever being applied, so quite honestly a case of Same Old Sh!t...........the application the problem!
The part I liked best was there was not much point in "easy" runs.
It also worked perfectly, without this controversy ,for many decades !!
If the only drawback is no more proper handicaps,I can live with that.........just my preference.