WHAT CAN YOU BRING TO RACING? - APATHY!

  • pirates
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Re: Re: WHAT CAN YOU BRING TO RACING?

15 years 9 months ago
#77086
well said rob,why try and attract new people into the game if we cannot look after the ones in it already

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  • Alcaponee
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Re: Re: WHAT CAN YOU BRING TO RACING?

15 years 9 months ago
#77087
Restructure operations, competition, Job opportunities, education at youth level, diamonds, multi use facilities, location, investment, Sheiks.

A few ideas that popped into mind that I dont want to forget. I will elaborate after work.

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  • Karel Miedema
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Re: Re: WHAT CAN YOU BRING TO RACING?

15 years 9 months ago
#77090
Scotia wrote:
we have world class facilities
We have many visitors and I have been racing overseas, the value you get on a SA race track is second to none
Take a big day, the big T vs Cheltenham
Here you can have a 5 star meal in any of the facilities, get entrance for next to nothing have a tv on your table, watch the race from a panoramic view, etc, etc
Last year if not mistaken it was 70 quid to get into the track, queue up for a bet, beer in plastic mug, lucky to see a tv with no sound, never mind a horse in the flesh, jammed packed etc, etc
trust me for overseas visitors we have plenty to offer far better deal than trying to watch a soccer game with these bloody trumpets in your ear


At big T perhaps, but nowhere else in the country.
Paid for by the RA, for a select few.
It's window dressing, no more.

The South African racing model now is based on generating as much turnover as possible, by having as many races as possible, and generate betting on it, from whatever source can be found (internationally).
Local racing will become less and less important for our operators.
They couldn't survive on local interest anyway, Gold Circle's troubles a case in point.

It will be interesting to see where it leads to.

The local model is quite different from Japan, or Hong Kong.
These have relatively little racing, but generate huge turnover.
The Japanese scenario goes like this (an example, but it's the same weekend after weekend):
Gr1 race on 28 June.
Total turnover on the day 26 billion yen.
On course 4%.
Off course 96%.
On course attendance 61.000 (!).
Total turnover on the Gr1 event 19 billion yen (75% of total!).

It seems to me that they promote the hell out of one main event.
It reminds me of the saviour of French racing many years ago, the Tierce, which was on one race every weekend, televised nationally, with betting outlets in every little cafe (a bit like Lotto machines in SA today). French racing exists today only because of that at the time revolutionary idea.

It seems to me that to get 'the masses' involved, a simple one-event bet is the answer - easy to understand, easy to promote, a quick in-and-out at set time each week. The secret is to be able to bet on it easily, without having to go to unfriendly hellhole Totes, which only perpetuate racing's seedy image to normal people.
Maybe we should talk to Branson, for when he takes over the Lotto, and use his outlets.

Forget about trying to get people to the course, or to get the masses interested in racing as a day's outing (on course or off course). Those opportunities are long gone.

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  • Andrewest
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Re: Re: WHAT CAN YOU BRING TO RACING?

15 years 9 months ago
#77092
History..
History, if used as a pattern, will help us beter the future.

Until the early 1980's, the then TRANVAAL bookmakers were controlled by the gang.
Nepotism, insider scheming was all part of the structure.

Even Clive Dunbar had to apply 3 times for his right, before his fellow gang members had an attack of honesty and granted him, his course right.

It was the days when an envelope was left in the pencil book, to be audited by the then TPA guys.

Racing was run, not by the government, not by the province, not by the gambling board, not by Goba, but by the jewish gang and a few envelopes.
The rights fetched R800k in the 1980's.

Each town had a bookmaker, including Nigel, Springs, Barkpan, Carletonville, Westonaria etc.
Springs had 6 bookmakers, Nigel had 2. Denton was stationed there at the time.

A STRUCTURE THAT GOT DESTROYED, when the gang had an attack of honesty around 1985, decided to let go of the nepotism, and allowed Afrikaners to obtain course rights.
Perhaps it was presure from the then Broederbond that got the gang to ease off their brilliant ideas.

A STRUCTURE THAT GOT DESTROYED, when every one could get a seat upstairs.
The quality of the food dropped, the place ran dry after a few years.
Gone were the "OLD BOYS CLUB".
I could not join, somone had to suggest me, someone had to second me.

why did all the punters disappear...
why did all the bookmakers disappear..
why did all the tattersals's close down in SPRINGS, NIGEL,WESTONARIA

or are all the punters still there..
SPRINGS got classified as a city many years back..more than 250,000 houses..??
CARLETONVILLE, FOCHVILLE, WESTONARIA, RANDFONTEIN, NIGEL..the guys are still there..

and the CASINO is there..BRAKPAN..the other illegal casino's still there
lotto is there..at every cafe..
powerball is there...at every cafe..

but were is the bookmaker...in Johannesburg..running a venue on a business model that cannot be profitable..

Hence racing is only for the city dwellers, Johannesburg, Vereeniging, Durban, Capetown, Durbanville,PE and KIM.
the rest must play lotto..

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  • Dave Scott
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Re: Re: WHAT CAN YOU BRING TO RACING?

15 years 9 months ago
#77093
txs for post Karel and you may be correct that we will never get people back to the track.

The point is that the big T is not for the selected few, I am sure only the Elevation is for the RA, they have numerous other facilities, in fact for quality of food and vibe the Furious is probably the best, Kelvin's bar has also great food well priced, in addition the new deck, and numerous other function halls, so the facilities are world class for the masses, trouble is they wont come, a track like this in the UK would be bursting at the seams.

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  • Andrewest
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Re: Re: WHAT CAN YOU BRING TO RACING?

15 years 9 months ago
#77094
Imagine
rugby stadiums are empty..only TV coverage..
Soccer staium are empty...FIFA is giving the tikets away..CONFED CUP...
Horse Racing tracks are empty...we have a model that wants to broadcast racing..
F1 race cars..
A1 race cars...history..
motor bikes...


why dont we switch over to virtual racing...


remeber the management model that Nedbank went to learn from the Japanese..
Nedbank nearly took over STDBANK..

P...Produce..bricklayer..
A...Administrative..accountant..fire everyone..put money in the bank..get interest
E...Entrepuneural..new scheme every day..Ngong..Harness racing..
I...Interpersonal..nice..marketing..diplomatic

need a balance in the board room..
else the strongest one(s) win

P- 1
A- 3
E- 1
I- 1

get the idea..

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  • Dave Scott
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Re: Re: WHAT CAN YOU BRING TO RACING?

15 years 9 months ago
#77095
Andrew, you will also be pleased to hear or see, that they have resolved your problem of single ply rolls in the private boxes
At least the guys are trying to upgrade



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  • fpig
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Re: Re: WHAT CAN YOU BRING TO RACING?

15 years 9 months ago
#77096
Hi,Nelson here and this is my first comment on this site.I have been an avid punter all my life,have owned horses am a member of Gold Circle and as a punter all i want to do is to have access to placing my bets with no incidents.

We attend the July and Gold cup every year in a group and this year we were in one of the rooms above the parade ring and the gold cup we were in a box on the finish line.My problem is that in both rooms at the tote facilities the people working the machines are using outdated machines that jam all day long,resulting in long queues and they are trainees{on a big day like that}surely training should be done on less important meetings,the frustrations i experienced resulted in me depositing into my telebet acc and sitting at the table taking my bets.But what about the geusts we had invited?They dont have that facility and most are first time at the races.I know that they can open temporary accs but thats not the point,for them there is a degree of excitment and enjoyment handing in a ticket and collecting.

By far the most infuriating was that the trainees seem to know that people at these meetings are not regulars and the ammount of times it happened in one day day was blatantly shocking.Lady in the group asks how much does it pay for a place so we tell her r5 so you get back r50 for your outlay,she comes back with r30 and no payout ticket.My mate goes back to the teller with her,oh sorry i made a mistake .i go later to place my bets which i know comes to r596.The attendant says r600 so i give him the r600 and ask him to check,he says r596 sorry,i asked why he said r600,oh i thought it was r600.I always give them the change but thats not the point.We had three geusts who had the same and were were unhappy.

Other room July day,being already aware that the trainees are stealing/making mistakes i decide to go to the other tote section on the other side of the room and hand in 5 tickets to be cashed.She conveniently doesnt cash in 1 ticket.i have to go through all the rig moral; of checking my tickets with her to eventually get the one ticket that she missed and yes maybe she made a mistake but youll never get me to believe that.

They know there are new punters there and take a chance.Yes i know the responsibility is on the punter and they will never catch me but what about these new people the racing industry is trying to attract.

So HOW DO YOU GET THESE PEOPLE TO COME BACK.Some will come back cos of the type of people they are but what about the rest of the people attending that are having the same done to them.

My message as a simple punter is all i want is a hassle free betting experience and for our geusts to experince the same.

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  • Jack Dash
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Re: Re: WHAT CAN YOU BRING TO RACING?

15 years 9 months ago
#77098
Why is it they we seem to make so many mistakes, or if not mistakes, just repeat whatever we've done before without ever considering why?

Why is the World Cup race in Dubai the last race on the card?
Why is the Breeders Cup the last race on the card?
Why do many tracks program the 'easy' races early in the day?
Why are some racing operators reluctant to 'tie up' punters money all day long?
Why do overseas operators sometimes purposely target bets onto difficult handicaps?
Why are there arbitary rules that bugger up our handicapping system?
Why have so many handicaps been allowed to dilute the spectacle of racing to into boring communism instead of vibrant capitalism?
Why must racing from 2 SA venues jump 5 min apart?

Sometimes one gets the distinct feeling that the managers of our racing haven't yet asked themselves "why?" about anything at all.

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  • Karel Miedema
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Re: Re: WHAT CAN YOU BRING TO RACING?

15 years 9 months ago
#77101
Why are the Big Ones the last races in Dubai & USA?
Because they don't have rugby matches that would clash and compete for tv time.
Or FIFA world cups that cause postponements by a whole month.
You got to get the priorities right.

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  • Andrewest
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Re: Re: WHAT CAN YOU BRING TO RACING?

15 years 9 months ago
#77103
Fpig,
this is the de facto standard at all tote outlets.
be they run by Phumelela, a bookmaker or tote operator.

the pay they receive is a by product of the schemes they pull.
when they are short, they have to pay in.
when they are over, they pocket the money..

so, we start off by being straight down the line.
at first we make a living on the change (tips) we get..

then we learn not to clear the last bet of R38.20..
when the punter hands me his ticket to cash, it displays whatever winnings less R38.20..
when the punter hands me his tickets to punt, it displays whatever due plus R38.20..
when the punter collects or pays, I make R38.20
when the punter complains, he/she is sorry, made a mistake.

the sad part is, sooner or later they start punting..
fall in..
then they owe..
bookmaker or manager gets them to sign an acknowledgement of debt..or else we call the cops to lock you up...
they keep the job..
now they have to steal to pay back the acknowledgement of debt..
the manager and/or bookmaker knows they are stealing from the punters, but they dont care, they want the acknowledgement of debt repaid..


and before we have a fit..go check at the sites..ask..hear..and learn..
they are all under contract (acknowledgement of debt) to steal...
like druggies..cannot leave..cannot strike..cannot complain..mafia style..
and for those that think "conspiracy"..its time you guys wake up..

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  • Bob Brogan
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Re: Re: WHAT CAN YOU BRING TO RACING?

15 years 9 months ago
#77105
Great post guys,getting new blood into racing is a must might it be punters, owners,Business,drinkers and eaters.

Sure there is plenty of Bill Borad space round the Cities?

"Bring a friend Racing"

"Valentines supper at Turffontein or greyville"

"R10m P/A pool Guaranteed"(sure a massive pa once a month could be done?)

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