louisg tell the nha they are clue less

Rocksoff

Of course they dont run to their exact ability every time but certainly having poorly handicapped horses in a race will only make that worse and not better. How can a horse run to its ability when its out at the weights? The whole makeup of the race is different....

Example a horse runs and wins a handicap off 88 but his true mr is closer to 100 that means he would have race just a fraction faster than the rest of the field and possibly put one or 2 of the field under pressure they would normally not encounter, that form is therefore poo poo


Now a handicap where all horses top to bottom are correctly handicapped and not under sufferance then the race can be run many times with different results, this is where trainers come into it and draw and going and horsies headache and other variables.

Rockspider Wrote:

---

> The whole system at the moment works of the
> presumstion that every horse runs to his true
> abbility everyday it runs but as lous and graig
> will testify that thats not possible the horse is
> not a machine that can be put on a dyno miutes
> before it races to see if it puts out the desired
> kw's unfortunatly the handicappers think so


I see the present system as operating exactly opposite to this presumption ...........I fail to see how a horses ability can go up and down 2 or 3 times in 3 months ...............but a changing MR suggests it can.
Why should the Handicapper/Rating be expected to compensate for lack of fitness &/or soundness................crazy concept IMO.

Rockspider,

Ill keep quiet if you answer me this question truthfully


You have a horse in your yard
14 starts all over 1000m
Merit rating of 64

Now nomination time comes
You have 2 choices same day

Choice 1
Maiden good draw but against 1st timers your horse is the only raced horse to accept R 90 000

Choice 2

Merit rated handicap 70 all horses R 70 000
Good draw and you get a bit of weight off the top weight

You job is t get the horse to win, where does it run?

Easy, you are presuming that all the horses in the merit rated 70 are rated perfectly. Is this not what this thread is about? Horses are not rated properly right now?

Easy if everything was as easy as u mke it out to be iwill gladly give u the oppurtinity to work as a assistant for me for 5years then u can apply for a licence to train horses i can then retire knowing that the black caviar of trainers are operating and i can just wait till our horsesstep out to run go to the bookies put my pension down go home pour a drink sit back wait for the result go back to the bookies collect winning then go home wait till u have a runner again repeat this and i should be able to have a blissfull retirment sound in the knowledge that u u will be my atm till the day me or u dies now how about that hmm as a guy said 2 me onedy damm but racing is an easy game

easy Wrote:

---

> Rockspider,
>
> Ill keep quiet if you answer me this question
> truthfully
>
>
> You have a horse in your yard
> 14 starts all over 1000m
> Merit rating of 64
>
> Now nomination time comes
> You have 2 choices same day
>
> Choice 1
> Maiden good draw but against 1st timers your horse
> is the only raced horse to accept R 90 000
>
> Choice 2
>
> Merit rated handicap 70 all horses R 70 000
> Good draw and you get a bit of weight off the top
> weight
>
> You job is t get the horse to win, where does it
> run?


Easy,if that's the only info you had,you would be guessing.............I know where you are going with this ,but what if 2 horses in the handicap race had both won with a lot in hand and now run off capped ratings(say,10 pounds below form).............you would change your mind I guess?.........why run third to those horses and have an established unnecessarily high MR when you eventually win!

Craig,

Yes but the system is what is being tested.

Zietsman Oosthuizen Wrote:

---

> guys stop attacking each other especially this
> thread ....i do like the perspective each give on
> what needs to change and why in everybody's own
> opinion....lets get back to origanal point please
> flashtand easily.....
>
> some great pointers from guys that are concerned
> and cluedup about the MR system now compared to
> old one......my view is to have an extra race on
> the current program ...normally its a 9race
> program ....make it a 10 race program:
>
> 4 maiden races ....
> 4 handicaps ......low middle high
> 1 novice/ graduation with sex allowance
> 1 conditions race/ listed race
> 1 pinnacle / listed race
>
>
> what do you guys think? will someting likthis
> help? and where do they need to tweek the current
> MR system?oom louis Craig Rob FLash Easy frodo
> ????


Again I'm no expert, but would have thought the program should match the horse population - it will vary through the year - if they get 100 noms for the maiden races, 50 for the handicaps and 10 each for the plated races, then imo there should be more maiden races and handicaps and less of the plated races (maybe a plated race once every 2 weeks) - the purpose should be to give as many horses as possible the opportunity to race - thereby keeping the majority of owners satisfied. And that was a problem here in Gauteng a couple of years ago - not sure if it has improved, but back then we had a filly rated in the low 70's which we could not find a race for (middle distance) for 6 weeks - that can't be right imo

Also up here in Gauteng, I don't think it would be a bad thing to have even more sand racing during the winter months - and if your horse does not perform on the sand, give it a good break - which could do it a world of good if it had the opportunity to race frequently during the spring / summer / autumn

But there are no hard and fast rules imo :S

views
louisg tell the nha they are clue less (Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6)
by Flash Harry 3,000 175 10/18/2013 02:34PM
Last Post by easy

Rob

You are of course correct, but mr should not be capped and trainers should not be worried when horses get a "high " rating when they clearly deserve it.
This is the whole problem, it started with trip tease which clearly is going to be rated higher than 88 and therefore should not be in a handicap but rather tucked away for a year and winning a listed race.

I know its not easy, i am just forcing thought and pointing out that trainers cannot have it both ways. In other words low merit ratings and farm handicaps with clearly superior horses.

Your point about fitness and well being is a greater contributor to bad form than merit rating issues

easy Wrote:

---

> Rob
>
> You are of course correct, but mr should not be
> capped and trainers should not be worried when
> horses get a "high " rating when they clearly
> deserve it.
> This is the whole problem, it started with trip
> tease which clearly is going to be rated higher
> than 88 and therefore should not be in a handicap
> but rather tucked away for a year and winning a
> listed race.
>
> I know its not easy, i am just forcing thought and
> pointing out that trainers cannot have it both
> ways. In other words low merit ratings and farm
> handicaps with clearly superior horses.
>
> Your point about fitness and well being is a
> greater contributor to bad form than merit rating
> issues

It is why I disagree with reducing MR's unless the rating given,has proven to be clearly an error!

Frodo

Correct and thats a point i made earlier, in the usa the programmer is based at the track for the duration of the meeting. Some meetings last 3 months so races are " made up" to cater for the current population.

Example

Finger lakes race 5 tonight


Race 5 1 1/16M Dirt Post Time: 14:23
FOR THREE YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD WHICH HAVE NOT WON TWO RACES SINCE OCTOBER 16, 2012. Three Year Olds, 121 lbs.; Older, 124 lbs. Non-winners of a race at a mile or over since September 18 Allowed 2 lbs. Such a race since August 18 Allowed 4 lbs. Claiming Price $4,500.



Very very specific conditions